The crazy part is it doesn’t matter who you voted for, everyone on both sides would generally love to help their neighbor and would offer a hand. It’s just when people get involved in the macro sense that they get filled with hate and anger. Makes me sad. Let’s just all move couches.
Comment on How to move a sofa
dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 1 week ago
I am the guy with the truck.
The truck is proof that Americans can and will accept socialism.
It’s brocialism.
Dozzi92@lemmy.world 1 week ago
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 week ago
Can we do that without the latent ableism that comes along with it, like the idea that if you can’t help people move couches then you don’t deserve anyone else’s help either?
This especially effects people with invisible disabilities, who are already viewed as lazy, but who also might be the most helpless when it comes to moving their own furniture.
Boost@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I think it’s kind of ablist to assume a disabled person has nothing of value to offer, like if they can’t move a couch then they are excluded. “Moving a couch” could be anything, it could be filing taxes or cooking a meal. Disabled people are good at stuff too. I think it’s really weird for you to make this assumption.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works 1 week ago
Honestly it’s both. Plenty of people with disabilities have plenty to offer. A lot actually don’t though, and they still deserve that helping hand.
A family aquatintance has some mental and physical disabilities. They’re just not going to be able to help in any way that isn’t superficial. And that’s okay. Their worth isn’t defined by their utility.Attaching how worthwhile it is to help someone to their ability to provide a service inherently says the person who can’t isn’t worthy of help.
We should be good to people because it’s the right thing to do, not out of the expectation of a future repayment. More pragmatically, we should help based on the assumption that the other person would, and that if everyone acted like that the world would be better.
I think the other person read a bit much into it, but their base point isn’t wrong.
axx@slrpnk.net 1 week ago
I agree. Even if the task at hand really is moving a couch, coordinatin, organising, etc. are crucial contributions that dont require physical strength or ableness to do.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 week ago
What I think is ableist is that you would try to pretend that disabled people don’t get excluded due to society devaluing the things they can offer.
It’s also ableist for you to suggest that a disabled person should be expected to file someone else’s taxes if they need help moving furniture.
You just gave a master class in missing the point.
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 1 week ago
My partner has disabilities and so they do not help lift the sofa. But they are a lot better at driving a manual truck than I am, so with a few pillows and adaptations in the driver’s cab that is what they do when someone needs a sofa moved. Some disabilities prevent you from driving the truck too, but it’s important as a group of sofa movers to make sure that everyone has something they can fulfill, even if that means planning the move. That can be incredibly helpful.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 week ago
Anecdotes and exceptions don’t justify the erasure of marginalia.
Like, why don’t all blind people just become famous musicians so that they can be rich? Ray Charles did it.
No one in their right mind would think that means blind people don’t require assistance/accomodations.
Your partner has disabilities but can drive a stick shift? Great. I guess the rest of us disabled people just need to bootstrap a little harder?
GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Cool thing about being disabled is you become the one who knows the people with a truck and a couple 20-year old children. Or the person who cuts hair for free. Or the person whose cousin does pro bono legal work for certain requests.
In short, you become the key connector in that network: the Guy Who Knows A Guy.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 week ago
It sounds like you’re putting a lot of weight in your own experience and assuming every disabled person will have the same experience.
Maybe you or someone you know is disabled and is that connector who knows a guy. But projecting that and assuming every other disabled person will have that same advantage is a wild thing to do, and I’m surprised that more people don’t see through that.
Dozzi92@lemmy.world 1 week ago
You better come with some jokes then. When I’m moving some bulky furniture upstairs and really not having a good time, sometimes a well-timed joke is exactly what we need to drop it and injure ourselves.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 week ago
Was this supposed to be an attempt at a joke?
FudgyMcTubbs@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Kevin and Tony would definitely move a sofa for a person with disabilities. No doubt in my mind. They’d still expect pizza and beer tho, that’s non-negotiable.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 week ago
Okay well what about when they ask that person later if they’ll help move Tony’s fridge? Like this un-negotiated yet obligatory repayment. If you say “sorry, I can’t” then they’ll immediately lose respect for you, and probably tell everyone they know not to help you in the future. Even if you explain that you have a condition that prevents you, if that condition isn’t visible to them they’ll think you’re just selfish and making excuses.
Also, are you willing to guarantee that Kevin and Tony aren’t racist or homophobic? Are you willing to guarantee they would help move a sofa for someone who’s gay or black? This is about more than just disabilities.
This is about “good ole boy” culture and relying on the benevolence and altruism of people who likely as not only care about helping people they view as a part of their in-group. And if you think that’s not a real problem in america, then you must not live here because it’s literally all over the place here.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today 1 week ago
We do socialism all the time.
Neighbors bring each other gifts. Friends feed one another. Someone is struggling and we give them what they need, no questions asked.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 1 week ago
That’s not really socialism, given that it is not universally distributed but depends on one’s social connections. A socialist system would have impersonal mechanisms for catching those who fall through the cracks due to not knowing enough people to ask for and repay favours. (And those people do exist: “everyone knows a guy with a truck” except perhaps for a socially isolated shut-in or someone who does not speak the language, or someone who does not fit in with the community in their truck catchment radius.)
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 week ago
Yeah, in this case “everyone” literally just means “everyone who’s visible within my social radius.”
It completely erases everyone else, like the types of people you mentioned. It’s very in-group focused, and bears uncanny parallels to the fascist idea that outsiders don’t matter.
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 1 week ago
I am also the guy with the truck. But I do not drive 5-speed manual very well. So the truck lives at the house of my friend who is good at driving manual. He’s kind of my Tony, I guess. The truck is indeed a community resource of anyone we are decent friends with.
rainwall@piefed.social 1 week ago
Ease the clutch out at the same rate you put on the gas. Just a nice smooth up and down with both feet, like you are pedaling a bike, but with 2 tons hammering around you.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 1 week ago
A.k.a. community
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 1 week ago
"What if we had a system where people could get the assistance they need. We could call it… Communityism.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works 1 week ago
But see, it’s not fair if people just get what they need! You need to make sure people are paying for it!
We can make it part of the system that each person gets help according to their needs, but each person also gives help according to their abilities. Yes yes. This is now definitely capitalism because it’s transactions.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 1 week ago
Capitalism has nothing to do with transactions. Capitalism would be if the truck was owed by Benny Ohana, who would not show up, not fill it up with gas, not repair it, but would still receive half of pizza and 2/3 of beer.
divingdonkey@sh.itjust.works 1 week ago
It’s not really capitalism without the involvement of capital, is it? It’s more akin to a trade-and-barter-economy/society, where everyone involved should have a high level of faith in others
matlag@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
Is it not what anarchy is really about? Low-level self organization.