He pushed radical reform. And it got him elected.
He lied. It’s called lying.
Comment on American workers are tired of waiting.
SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 4 days agoAs opposed to nominating candidates that have actual reform plans rather than going for the ‘safe option’ Hillary/Kamala status quo candidates.
Donald Trump was not the safe candidate for the GOP. He pushed radical reform. And it got him elected.
Hillary and Kamala were the safe candidates for the DNC. Status quo, don’t rock the boat, appeal to the base, don’t take risks. They lost.
The American people are hurting. The American people want radical reform. And so they vote for a radical reform candidate.
Bernie would have wiped the floor with Trump, had he gotten the nomination. But the DNC saw him as too radical and unpalatable in the general election. How’d that work out?
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 days ago
SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 4 days ago
I was not evaluating his effectiveness as a leader. Only his effectiveness as a candidate. Simple fact is, both times he pushed a message of radical reform. Both times his opponent did not. Both times he won.
I am not a fan of his presidency for a great many reasons, and I did not vote for him either time.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Lying got Biden elected. And now his wing of the party has no credibility and will hopefully never get it back. Centrists are untrustworthy. Too bad their stink is on the rest of the party.
AppleTea@lemmy.zip 4 days ago
Obama also ran a sham campaign in '08, presenting himeself as far more progressive than he really was.
And it worked. So why has the DNC abandoned that strategy? Why can’t they countenance even so much as a falsely held progressive stance?
DarkFuture@lemmy.world 4 days ago
The American people are hurting. The American people want radical reform. And so they vote for a radical reform candidate.
This is why part of the blame rests on voters. When you’re hurting, it doesn’t help to make irrational decisions, like not voting or voting for a non-viable 3rd party. Or voting for a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist with one failed presidency under his belt.
And now they’re going to hurt a whole hell of a lot more.
Bernie would have wiped the floor with Trump
Bernie lost the popular vote in both Democratic primaries. As much as I like him, he was not as popular as people think he was on a national scale.
SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 4 days ago
Both of your points go back to the same underlying issue- Americans don’t do their homework. Expecting the American population to do their own independent research into candidates and select the candidate that objectively best serves their interest is not a winning proposition. I really wish this was different, but that is just not a thing that happens.
But that means that a candidate wins or loses on marketing. This marketing is a combination of having the reach, and hitting those people with the right message.
That’s a big reason why I say DNC handed the nomination to Hillary. The DNC was supposed to remain neutral until the primary was finished, however they helped the Hillary campaign by sharing their mailing lists. So you say Bernie was unpopular, thank you if you limited that to voters who were familiar with his platform as well as Hillary’s I think you would have a different result.
But look at Trump. He won the PR game. He said lots of crazy shit that got him constantly in the news, then when he got the spotlight he used it to say things that directly addressed the American people’s pain points. His message was that he sees the country not working for the average person, but instead working for companies that outsource American jobs. So to stop that he will throw some tariffs and bring jobs back! If you’re in American Blue collar worker or especially factory worker, that is the first time back in quite a while that a politician has said ‘I hear you, you matter and I’m going to stand up to big business and fix your problem’.
Now you can objectively point out problems in his budget proposals and his stated agendas as of campaign season, you can point to the gop’s track record of abandoning lower classes, but that all just becomes more words on a very crowded page, more talking heads. None of that overcame the power of Trump’s message.
Obama did the same thing by the way, the whole hope, change, yes we can campaign was brilliant and it did the same thing of speaking directly to the American people’s pain points. And it was also simple enough to resonate in someone’s mind. Unfortunately Obama had the right idea and he was a good president but he didn’t have the balls needed to railroad his desired reforms through.
My point is though, if the DNC had two brain cells to rub together they would be learning from this. You need a candidate who’s willing to stand up to big business, who is willing to ruffle feathers among the donors. That wasn’t Hillary. And it wasn’t Kamala either.
kunaltyagi@programming.dev 4 days ago
You do know that you can participate in primaries?
SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 4 days ago
I’m aware. I also know that the DNC (the centralized organization) has a lot of influence through things like superdelegates. Look at the 2016 primary- openly colluding with Hillary against Bernie, and it worked.
ViceroTempus@lemmy.world 4 days ago
And then of course in 2020 they colluded behind the scenes to have all the candidates drop out except Biden, Bernie, and Elizabeth Warren(Left in to split the progressive vote).
But you know these blue maga types, they prefer to leave reality off the table so they can pretend this is a functioning democracy.
And in 2024…Oh right… No choice to be had.
Nalivai@lemmy.world 4 days ago
It’s free, and you can do it either online, or by mail, or in person. What the “I would vote but don’t know how to buy stamps” bullshit argument is that?
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 4 days ago
2024*
Nalivai@lemmy.world 4 days ago
In the whole history of DNC’s existence, there was, as far as I remember, two instances of DNC choosing a candidate against popular vote. One was more than a century ago nobody remembers nobody cares, and another one was when they chose Obama even though he lost almost a percent. And that turned out to be actually a good and correct decision.
When Hilary, was nominated, both times Biden was nominated, it was always aligned with a popular vote. We don’t know what superdelegates would’ve done, but what we know is that so far they do exactly what democratic party voters want them to do. If you want them to do something else, and god fucking knows we all do, you can start by actually showing them that.
Either there is not enough people agree with your desires, or enough of them do and they don’t do anything about it. In both cases DNC isn’t a problem, you are.
WraithGear@lemmy.world 4 days ago
yea, like our last primary! … oh wait.
Bytemeister@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Our last primary was just 2 days ago. Hope you didn’t miss that one just like all the others.
WraithGear@lemmy.world 4 days ago
mine is not available until june
Riverside@reddthat.com 4 days ago
You mean like when they de-facto forced Bernie out top-down?
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 4 days ago
And how they booted David Hogg after he was elected as vice chair of the DNC. Tried to say his nomination was void or some other bullshit after they realized he wasn’t just going to tow the party line.
ViceroTempus@lemmy.world 4 days ago
I asked this question elsewhere, but who did you vote for President in the Democratic Party Primaries in 2024?
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 days ago
There definitely was a 2024 primary
ViceroTempus@lemmy.world 4 days ago
I didn’t say there wasn’t a primary. I asked who did you vote for President in said primary?
Nalivai@lemmy.world 4 days ago
You seem to hung up on the fact that presidential nominee that both DNC and the democratic party voters chose got health issues and the party chose his running mate and a person who got second place on primaries to be the next candidate, instead of starting the primaries 3 months before the election.
And that’s technically true, but what to you think they should’ve done instead? Or are you doing it from the perspective of a pure internet argument? Like, “see, sometimes the candidate you chose gets sick therefore the democracy doesn’t exist” type shit?