Comment on Twinkle twinkle little star

minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  You’re getting down voted right now and I think it’s important to understand why because I had a similar reaction not too long ago. I was curious to understand my own biases and what I think it’s important to share what I learned as a cis male in IT.

  Women just want to be women. Some want to wear nail polish and “look pretty” while others want to just rock a T-shirt and jeans. Like men who wear full tux and debug code at 6pm on a Friday (because they aren’t farmers), they want to be what they want to be.

  Men have the luxury to wear whatever they want (for the most part) and not get shit for it. Women have to do everything that men do and do it with maturity while handing the shit that men throw their way.

  I learned this lesson when I was the sole male STEM counselor at an all girls camp. It was a volunteer gig that my company put together. They had last minute cancellations and I had time on my calendar and so I volunteered. I did not know it was all girls and I certainly did not know I’d be the only guy.

  I stayed curious and helped where I could. My job was to be a project manager, help teams understand how to win their competition that had set requirements. So I walked them through all that and looked over their code. There as a dedicated “make up hour” where the girls were encouraged to make their presentations “pretty” with make up, glitter, etc. I personally found it pointless given how far behind we were but I kept my mouth shut.

  And I observed.

  The fact that these girls could do this and do IT was immensely powerful. You could see their spirits lifted. It rocked my world and made me check my own beliefs. Why not allow them to be pretty? Why not let them take an hour to put glitter and stickers on their board if it made them happy?

  Did we win? No. But they enjoyed it.

  In my 20+ years in tech, we need more women because they bring perspective in ways I don’t. Not because they want to be pretty because they provide insight in ways I don’t expect. Anything I can do to help make that happen I’ll gladly do.

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  • Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I like you.

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    • stelelor@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I like him too.

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    • CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Right back at you!

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  • jupiter_jazz@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Sorry think that guy is a troll but appreciate your response.

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    • Soulg@ani.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Why do you think that? They seem to be interacting genuinely to someone elses explanation

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      • psx_crab@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Uhh, which part of it is genuine?

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  • minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Uh…k…not sure which part do that relates to my question?

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• Droggelbecher@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Girls want to be able to choose how to look. Femininity often causes people in the sciences (and other places too) to take you less seriously. So, there’s negative consequences to choosing to look pretty, making it less of a free choice.

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  • minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    So they will avoid doing things if how they look doing them isn’t how they want to look?

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    • Droggelbecher@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Some of them might, a lot of them won’t. But most of them would be happier if personal freedom of expression weren’t at direct odds with professional fulfilment. Just like, yano, human beings in general.

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    • Eq0@literature.cafe ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Would you go in a field in which everyone wears short shorts and you get stared at if you don’t?

      Would you “not mind” if your company dress code (for a well paired white collar job) is pink shirt with orange blazer?

      Make it absurd and flip it to yourself. Suddenly, you want to wear “normal clothes” but you stick out like a sore thumb if you do. Would you feel comfortable? Day in, day out?

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      • minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        If the money is right or I loved the work, yes.

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• Nefara@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I have a female friend in STEM who has dealt with an immense amount of misogyny in her field. She’s been the only woman in the room more times than she can keep track of. She has achieved a lot academically, but feels a pressure to conform to a standard of behavior set by men. She loves pink, collects dolls, paints her nails and is unabashedly feminine, and has suffered real social and professional consequences for her gender presentation. It’s literally an act of bravery for her to go to work in a soft fuzzy pink sweater.

  I get that the question here is implying that either all little girls are so obsessed with pretty sparkly things that the lack of it would be a detractor, or that it’s reductive to assume that they would and that femininity can take many forms. However, it’s a valid desire to want to do a thing and be accepted for how you are. If a little girl does love pink and glitter and all classically coded feminine things, seeing someone like you in STEM blazing that trail and making a place for you, is just as validating as seeing other minorities in admirable positions. Representation matters.

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  • khannie@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I have a female friend in STEM who has dealt with an immense amount of misogyny in her field.

    That’s really fucking depressing :(

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  • Eq0@literature.cafe ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I will add my own story. Woman, in STEM, I mostly don’t care about what I wear, but sometimes I want to rock it just because. Put on make up, do my nails, wear a skirt. I kept that out of the office until I moved to a department with a flourishing gay community. If they can wear nail polish and skirts, so can I! I’m still usually the only woman in any given room.

    As a counterpoint, for a while I was the fanciest dressing person of the department because none of my T-shirts had holes 😒 also got told, jokingly, to not overdo it the one time I wore a shirt.

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  • minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    So…no? Not beleiving they can be pretty does discourage girls from choosing to do things?

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    • Nefara@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yes, believing that they will be discriminated against for things that they like and face negative consequences for expressing who they are will discourage many people from doing things, not just girls.

      There are plenty of girls who fit into a more masculine standard of behavior and will integrate better into male dominated spaces. However, some girls will want to enjoy feminine coded things without judgement in those spaces and that is valid too.

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      • minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        K, thanks.

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• Xenny@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Boys can’t do a thing unless they can look cool?

  There’s a big push in media representation that scientific girls are nerdy and not focused on their looks. Having that opposite representation that scientists can be pretty too is important. It shows that girls who are focused on their looks can totally be smart too. This was the entire plot of legally blonde.

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  • minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Shouldn’t the comparison be ‘won’t’, not ‘can’t’?

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• WanderingThoughts@europe.pub ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  That’s like asking if boys don’t want to do stuff unless they can turn it into a game or competition.

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  • minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Similar. Do they not?

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• ch00f@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Sure why not?

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  • minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I don’t know.

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