Comment on Anon gains a superpower
TachyonTele@lemm.ee 2 days ago
Doesn’t it work differently for different species or something? It wouldn’t turn a human invisible because it only turns hobbitis invisible. But it would definitely still alert the wraiths.
That’s my understanding of it but I’m probably wrong.
The one ring gives the wearer the power of what the wearer defines as power. Frodo turns invisible because for a hobbit not being noticed means safety. The ring tells Sam that he could plant as many Apple trees as he likes, even plastering whole middle earth.
In this moment the ring probably tells to Boromir that he could rebuild Gondor to old strength and he might be able to (before giving in to saurons influence).
I see this explanation very often but have not encountered textual evidence (either for or against this hypothesis). The feats we see from every ringbearer (be it the Sauron, the Witch King, Galadriel, Gandalf and even Frodo) can more easily be explained by the rings just enhancing magical feats of all kinds, and maybe the elven ones are better at preservation magic. I wouldn’t be surprised if I was wrong, though
The ring tells people lies though, no?
It definitely tells them what they want to hear, but I don’t think it’s lying. It could totally do everything it says. However it will just straight up yeet itself at the first opportunity to get back to Sauron.
Is there textual evidence for it granting powers other than invisibility and immortality though? I see this topic come up every few years and my recollection is that it typically sort of comes back to “we aren’t sure.”
Invisibility is incidental; it’s a side effect for those who do not exists in the unseen realm. It was created to dominate those who had the lesser rings of power; the dwarves proved too resilient, and the elves took theirs off before they could be influenced. The ring is a tool of domination, and enhances the bearer’s natural abilities. It may have allowed Aragorn for example, to inspire people to follow him as he became the next great dictator. It is a more subtle magic. In the books, Gandalf describes this process if he were to claim the ring; that he would build up a great kingdom to overthrow Sauron militarily and replace him as Middle Earth’s tyrant.
It does, in fact, turn humans invisible too. Isildur being the obvious example, but even the nine rings given to humans had that effect, shifting them to the spiritual / unseen world. That’s a whole different ramble, but for now, let’s sum it up that there is an unseen world not everyone can sense and influence, but the Maiar (including Sauron) are inherently spiritual beings that took physical shape in the seen world in order to interact with it.
For Sauron, so much of his power was poured into the One Ring that he was no longer able to take physical form without it (though he evidently still had some ability to twist minds even without it). Through the Ring, he had also dominated the nine human Ring bearers and bound them to him, moving them into the spiritual world. Given that they were originally of the seen world, they could take physical form more easily than him, but as his power waned, so did theirs and they eventually disappeared until his power grew once more and allowed them to reappear.
The reason they could still “see” Frodo is that they were attuned to the unseen and could sense him there, with their power over it manifesting in them stabbing his physical form even though it was invisible to mortal eyes.
There is still the question of the Dwarven rings. They were forged first, and it’s possible they weren’t as refined yet, though the dwarves are also described as more resilient at resisting the dominating effect. My guess is that the fact they were created by Aulë, Smith of the Valar, rendered them less susceptible to the craft of a lesser spirit (Sauron), but I have no evidence.
Sauron still has a physical form during the events of LOTR. Frodo sees him through the tower window when walking towards Mount Doom, and Gollum remarks he was personally tortured by him, and that his hand has 4 fingers
Generally it will work on any mortal except dwarves.
Why didnt the dwarves take the ring to Mordor?
papalonian@lemmy.world 2 days ago
See: the intro to the first movie. Isildur, after his victory at Mt Doom, uses the Ring to turn invisible in attempts to escape a group of orcs that attacked his party.
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 2 days ago
Had forgotten about that, I always tough it just gave power to the user, what power? That’s depends on the users desires and ambitions, and because Hobbits are not a lot into desires and ambitions, the ring wasn’t particularly powerful in them, neither had a lot of power to corrupt them.
Jax@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
What the ring does:
So the Ring… does things. One of which is pulling the bearer into the wraith world. I believe the reason Sauron doesn’t turn invisible is that he is already of the wraith world (implying he is invisible without the Ring, but I have no confirmation of that).
papalonian@lemmy.world 2 days ago
You’re pretty much spot on. It’s also why in the movies and books, the Ring Wraiths generally just look like black cloaks; not even dark shadowy figures in cloaks, literally just the black cloaks. But when Frodo puts on the ring when surrounded on Weathertop, he can clearly see their distinct faces and features, and they can immediately tell who has the ring.
thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 2 days ago
This is one of the things I like about Tolkiens approach to magic: It’s very diffuse.
We understand that Gandalf and Saruman are powerful, but it is very unclear exactly how they use their power. We don’t see them bringing down castle walls or throwing lightning bolts. Some rare examples are when Gandalf breaks the bridge the Balrog is on, and when he breaks Sarumans staff. None of these are feats of magic that would lead you to think they are by far among the most powerful beings in middle earth.
When Gandalf battles the Balrog, the books state something like “they battled for three days”, without specifying how a physically frail (at least by appearance) Gandalf could defeat a Balrog.
With the ring(s), we just learn that they “grant the user immense power”, without ever learning exactly how Sauron would become unstoppable if he had the ring. I think it makes the story great, because it makes the story inherently character-driven, with magic being a diffuse “force” in the background rather than concrete abilities someone like Gandalf could use to teleport, shield someone, or set a building of fire.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Basically, Tolkein liked the invisibility ring bit in Sky Island and decided to rip it off for The Hobbit. Then, when he made a sequel to The Hobbit he threw in a bunch of important-sounding bullshit to paper over the fact that his macguffin needed to do a bunch of completely different things than what it had been established to do earlier.
Apparently it worked.
Galapagon@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
The power of voodoo
Gurei@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
You do?