Israel was magicked into existence not very long ago(1948), immediately started breaking agreements and compacts
This is not really an accurate portrayal of events. Literally on the day that Israel was founded, Egypt, Transjordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen launched an invasion - for those keeping score at home, that’s all of their neighbors at the time, plus some of the larger countries in the region. This immediate and unflinching antagonism - very specifically on the heels of Jewish people being subjected to the Holocaust, and in combination with rhetoric from their neighbors calling for “the eradication of Israel” - seems to have largely set the tone of Israeli-Arab relations since then, and Israel has fought more than one existential conflict against its neighbors since then.
Now, I’m not saying Israel is blameless here, nor am I saying that the UK/UN was blameless in arbitrarily drawing some lines on a map in a very geopolitically fraught area. But I do find the narrative that Israel
Delphia@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Allow me to preface this by saying that I think both sides act like enormous cunts at times and I am also eternally grateful that it is not my life.
The only problem I have with the “Its Palestinian land” argument is that 1948 was 75 years ago. Its very important to the macro view of the sutuation but do you think a 3rd generation Israeli born citizen who is now strapping up his body armor to fight so that people stop trying to kill his family gives much of a fuck about how young his country is? Or who traditionally owned the land? Its his town, his city, his little brother who was just kidnapped.
I dont think anyone seriously thinks if Israel gave Hamas/Palestine the whole west bank, no more arguments about borders, leaving the settlements alone and trying to make peace that Hamas would become all about peace, hugs and understanding.
I think its absolutely impossible to defend either side with a straight face. Ask both of them about the worst 10 things the other side did and both of them are monsters.
drekly@lemmy.world 8 months ago
But surely that person has to appreciate that it’s only happening because his country is killing and stealing the land of another and has been for 75 years, and has essentially kettled them into a literal corner with giant walls and no escape where they have to rely on aid to survive, while killing huge amounts more of their people.
Zippy@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Jewish history in Palestine stretches back some 2000 years with a major purge about 1500 years earlier. What do you think about that claim on their land or does time negate that? Serious question that could argue rather the opposite in that they are fighting for land was taken from them.
drekly@lemmy.world 8 months ago
What do you think about the Russian claim to the land in Ukraine
CaptObvious@literature.cafe 8 months ago
Side note: the BBC has deeply disappointed in recent years with their Murdoch-esque reporting style. They’ve had to come off the list of trusted sources.
VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 8 months ago
On the other hand, that is within a human lifetime and they’re still expanding their settlements today. It’s not like the bad stuff just happened to people 75 years ago then stopped.
But I wish Israel didn’t help create Hamas. It would be much preferable for a more secular force to help Palestinians that I could put my support in. No one wants to support terrorists, but now Hamas is basically their only option, which sucks. I don’t even like reading about the stuff over there now, it’s all sad and there’s no good solution.
PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I know it was difficult to move a bunch of ethnic Jews to Israel to begin with, but I don’t see why it would be any more or less difficult to move them away in some sort of gigantic humanitarian effort to give the land back to Palestine now. It is equally as ridiculous now as it would have been back then.
Why not as an international community just guarantee a spot anywhere on the planet effectively for people to move out of Israel and into a country of their choice and give the land back most importantly.
Stovetop@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That already happened once, and it is called Israel.
The core issue at the heart of all of this is that the generations of oppression and systemic genocide done to the Jews of Europe and the Middle East necessitated the establishment of a Jewish state. And barring any better options, it was decided at that time that the best candidate was the ancestral homeland of the Jews. There was just the small problem of people who were living there for generations after the Jews were kicked out.
You can probably find countries willing to take in Jewish refugees were Israel to dissolve, but no country on Earth is willing to cede land to enable the same degree of self-governance that Israel has today. Forcing another disapora and relegating the Jews back to being just a minority group scattered across dozens of countries is asking for the same conditions that led to all of the forced migrations, pogroms, and holocaust which necessitated the establishment of Israel as a sovereign state in the first place.
PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 8 months ago
But that’s the thing. What does Palestinian apartheid have to do with any of it? It was thrusted upon them. Just doesn’t seem fair.
letsroll@kbin.social 8 months ago
Ironically, the beginning was then England left and divided the land between them. Then all the surrounding countries attacked the Jews and as they defended themselves, created the borders.
darkdemize@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Even if you did find a place to move them, the Israeli people don’t want to leave. The area they currently occupy is sacred to all three Abrahamic religions, which is a motivating factor for the conflict.
PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 8 months ago
They can stay, they’d just not be the defacto rulers of the land anymore