Comment on Cathy, do the math.

• bstix@feddit.dk ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  They can’t cut union rates.

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  • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Not until everyone leaves the union to get extra pay and the union loses all its bargaining power.

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    • bstix@feddit.dk ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      In my case, even that wouldn’t matter. The only way for an employer to get out of a union agreement is to shut down the business completely.

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      • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Your union agreements last until the end of time and never get renegotiated?

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    • JustZ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      This doesn’t even make sense.

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      • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        What part of it doesn’t make sense?

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  • bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    That’s just union contract negotiations.

    Not providing cost of living increase is effectively a pay cut FYI, and we’re speaking colloquially here.

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• ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  They can’t cut union rates since they have a contract. So they can, within reason, pay non union workers more but not lower the pay of union workers. One of the benefits of being in the union is that they can’t just lower your wages and they may have issues firing you for bad reasons.

  There’s a limit to how much they can pay the ununionized workers before it becomes clear they’re trying to interfere with the workers rights to free organization. In the image, it’s quite likely that the extra 50¢ is union dues, or could be explained as related to costs.

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  • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    One of the benefits of being in the union is that they can’t just lower your wages and they may have issues firing you for bad reasons.

    Not until everyone leaves the union to get extra pay and the union loses all its bargaining power.

    In the image, it’s quite likely that the extra 50¢ is union dues,

    That doesn’t make any sense. If it’s about union dues, the union pay is what should be higher.

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    • tacobellhop@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      Replace leaving the union with going to college instead and you get why we have a 3 generation straight loss in union membership.

      People told their kids to chase more money and then spent that money on cheaper foreign products and the whole house fell down within 20 years.

      This was the plan by the way for capitalists.

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      • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Aren’t people with college educations more likely to end up in a union? One of the reasons some places don’t want to hire “overqualified” people is because they’re afraid of unionization.

        There’s a variety of reasons for the decline of unions in the US, the main ones being:

        • Anti-union laws and propaganda (Mike Rowe being a big one)

        • Offshoring of manufacturing jobs

        • Major unions defanging themselves by purging radicals/communists to prove they’re “one of the good ones”

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      • JustZ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Well, also, a lot of the union jobs simply don’t exist anymore. Not very many boilermakers, steamfitters, carmens, or glazers around anymore. So obviously union membership is going to be down.

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    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      The workplace is deducting the union dues from union workers checks automatically.

      Unions loosing membership causing them to be weaker in negotiations is entirely irrelevant to why companies don’t just lower union pay outside of negotiations.

      There’s no faster way to get downvoted than to complain about being downvoted, particularly if you’re weirdly smug about it.

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      • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Unions loosing membership causing them to be weaker in negotiations is entirely irrelevant to why companies don’t just lower union pay outside of negotiations.

        OK, here’s the source of the confusion.

        What the fuck did I say that made anyone think I was talking about cutting union pay outside of negotiations? Literally where is anyone getting this from??

        There’s no faster way to get downvoted than to complain about being downvoted, particularly if you’re weirdly smug about it.

        Most of the downvotes I got (so far) came before I added that part.

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• lime@feddit.nu ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  sure, but whether or not they know it they have caved to the union’s demands by doing that

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  • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    What kind of 5th dimensional chess are you trying to play where penalizing someone for joining a union is “caving to the union’s demands?”

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    • lime@feddit.nu ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      if salaries depend on union decisions then surely they are following the union’s demands.

      i think the thing that makes it confusing is the missing context of whether unionised workers at that site are being paid less than non-union workers. i assumed the answer was no because it sounded like they had a CBA that the person was not aware of, since the alternative would have been immediately struck down by any union worth its salt.

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      • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        My guess would be that this person is part of the collective bargaining block, but does not pay dues (possibly public sector). So the contract she describes was negotiated by the Union, and is the same contract that everyone in her position gets, union or otherwise.

        Could be wrong, but the above situation is unfortunately pretty common.

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    • Madison420@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      They can’t cut union wages that’s the whole point of collective bargaining and they’re just maintaining competition with union rates which is legal. That competition might be specifically devised to draw potential employees away from union contracts and people may be dumb enough to go for it but that’s capitalism however fun that may be.

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      One of the goals of unions is to increase worker pay. Mission accomplished.

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      • HalfSalesman@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        The issue here is that if more people choose not to join a union for the pay raise in the short term, unions become weaker in the longer term. The capitalist in this case is paying a premium now to divide up labor for the chance down the line to save more money on labor overall in the long term.

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      • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Great, they increased pay for non-union workers, the workers leave the union for increased pay, now the company cuts union pay, and now there’s no organization for the workers to do anything about it. “Mission accomplished” indeed.

        Image

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• Madison420@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  Congrats you just figured out capitalism, .ml is speaking volumes here.

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  • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Thank you, yes as an .ml I do understand capitalism better than most of the people replying to me, it seems.

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    • Madison420@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      Dunning Kruger in action. Yes facts don’t matter your beliefs do, head on back to daycare and let the adults talk in peace.

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      • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Which facts are you talking about, exactly?

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