Submitted 11 months ago by IJustWentPsycho@lemm.ee to [deleted]
It would be easy to jump to religion as the cause of a lot of human suffering, and it is, but this ignores humans I aye ability to organize into disparate groups that inevitably hate.
It would take work to throw off these animalistic vestiges. Work we aren't quite fully capable of yet.
religion is one of the tools of hate, but a new tool will emerge among those that need one.
I think you have the most accurate answer. The “othering” behavior can be seen in essentially any group of people.
Plus, if you read any of the texts of these religions, I have never come across instructions to shun others. I think people have a surface level of belief and then sophomorically apply it to be “more righteous.” They’re really missing the forest for the trees if they elevate themselves above others.
Not the Middle East, but I remember Hinduism having a caste system that does actually rank people, but from information I got, people were generally on the same page about it.
Southpark did it with warring factions of atheism.
Making yourself the chosen people and others the enemy will always be popular.
Especially in the Middle East and a large proportion of Africa?
Are you aware of Mike Johnson and the people who enable him?
No. Could you clarify?
Now, don’t take this the wrong way, but this totally feels like a leading question, looking to pick an argument.
Not saying that’s what it is, but you haven’t given any reasoning, context or data to suggest why you think the situation should be any different. Over what time period were you expecting things to change? Why were you expecting things to be different by now?
What’s right and wrong had changed a lot since most religious text were written, for example:
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
From leviticus 20:13 (aka the Bible)
Doesn’t really sound like it belongs in the most holy book of the biggest religion on earth*. But I guess that precisely what’s in those holy texts doesn’t really matter but what matters is more the overall picture and the fact that religion unites people. My personal guess is that the religions practiced today will last as long as our civilization, even if their holy texts get really outdated
* Disclaimer: this is my opinion and I’m a non-religious teenager from Sweden. I’m aware that most people probably don’t find it as weird as I do even if they don’t want to kill homosexuals
It’s just shocking to me how many people still strongly believe religions like Christianity and Islam when it has been more than a thousand years.
I can’t remember the theories name, but I came across a suggestion from a historian (or sociologist? Or something…) that if you have to estimate how long a cultural feature will last, your best guess is “roughly as long as its existed for”.
So the pyramids at Giza are over 4000 years old. If we lack any specific knowledge of reasons ( predicting the stone erosion, or knowing that bombing is likely in the area soon) then all we can know is that they have lasted a long time, so probably could last a good bit longer. And if we guess random ages, they will average out to a middling number (just like if you roll a lot of d6s you’ll average out 3.5). The could be destroyed next year, but that’s an extreme outlier, and they could last 40,000 years but that’s also an extreme. So something around the 2000 - 6000 mark would probably be a good bet.
Similarly, Facebook has been around for 20 years. If the company collapsed next year, that’d be possible but unlikely. They could last into the next century, but again, most companies don’t. So guessing in the 10-30 years would be safe.
Obviously, it’s just a huge “rule of thumb” but I found it interesting. So instead of being surprised that Christianity is still here, twenty years past its second millenium, it’s more realistic to assume that you’re seeing it somewhere near its midpoint, rather than at an extreme. So we’re likely to have Christians for another few thousand years!
Tl:Dr if something has lasted a thousand years, it’s likely to last a good time longer.
to suggest why you think the situation should be any different.
Generally as science advances we have answers to how the universe works. I can understand religion a thousand years ago, but today? Not really. And the understand the fanatics even less when they oppose scientific fact.
The desperate desire to cling to anything that presents answers the individual feels comfortable with - a pretty lie is easier to swallow than the hard truth - coupled with the borderline-crippling fear of the unknown. Many religions - especially ones in the west - preach tolerance but rarely practice it. Mix that with power-hungry individuals and you’ve got a recipe for disaster.
Religion is built on a collective hatred towards everyone not in the collective. The fear of being cast out of that collective generates the toxicity you are referring to.
A divine warrant for action.
Everything else follows.
People like being told what to think. It’s easier. People also like schemes where they can blame their problems on other people (for whatever scapegoated reason their religious leaders come up with).
Religion presents the last perfect opportunity for conservatives to weaponize the government against shit they don’t like. Women, children, education, science, it’s all up when your invisible friends ‘wrote the constitution of this christian nation’ /vomits in mouth/
EDIT: What I mean by “religious toxicity” is being very religious to the point of hating the non-religious, and secularism.
I see people mention this a lot, but they always fail to mention that this happens both ways. Especially these days, there is an increasing number of non-religious people calling for the death of religious people and religion, or being hatful towards religious people in general.
Because of this, it is pretty clear that it isn’t religion itself that is the cause of the toxicity (except perhaps in some edge-case religious beliefs). Rather, it’s something much simpler than that. And actually, it’s the same cause of political hate, racism, sexism, etc.
The simple fact of the matter is that humans are different. Some think one way, others think another way. Humans these days hate these differences and therefore different people rather than learning how to find common ground and get along. And the next generation builds off of the hate of the previous. Afterall, it is much easier to hate someone you don’t agree with than it is to love someone you don’t agree with, and the vast majority of people are lazy and won’t put in the effort to do something so difficult.
You can’t really have civil conversation with someone who disagrees with you anymore. They will become militantly aggressive. It doesn’t seem to matter what the subject is, this aggressiveness is in everything.
They believe in the religion very strongly there.
Do you know the reason why?
In what way specifically?
In that they still value their religions (mainly Christianity and Islam), and they really hate the non-religious, and secularism.
Love your username by the way.
I mean I think that the reasons are just as varied as people themselves. I think a lot of times it’s tradition in the sense that their parents believed it, there parent’s parents believed in it. So, it’s easy to just do what everyone else does.
Then you have, especially in Islamic countries a situation where their religion is everything. From the government, to the judicial system, to the education system, and of course the religion. It’s a way to control to masses. I think it was Hitler that said “He alone that owns the youth gains the future”. Indoctrinate your people early and reinforce it every step of the way.
Then you also have a situation where Muslims pray multiple times a day. Once again this just reinforces the indoctrination, but it also serves as a constant reminder that if you “sin” bad things will happen.
All of these things and more help to cement a tight grip on a population. There is a YouTube channel hosted by an ex-Muslim that I find interesting. The dude is way smarter than I. The channel is called “Apostate Aladdin”. He does a great job of explaining things in easy to digest ways.
Think it has been a few hundred years since Christianity has been outwardly expressing hate and acting on it. If course there will be individuals that are extreme. Mostly it is edge lords that like to include it in these overall statements.
Can you define what you mean by religious toxicity?
I think a lot of people can’t figure out the world, so they rely on religion to tell them what’s good, what’s bad, who’s good, who’s bad. The rely on it to “understand” the world.
In my experience many, many people really have to simplify the world. They can’t see shades of gray or nuance, they need black and white.
scytale@lemm.ee 11 months ago
It’s human nature. Anything with a power structure is bound to breed toxicity when you put humans in it. That’s why you have extremists in all religions, not just the ones in the middle east and Africa.
Apepollo11@lemmy.world 11 months ago
This. It’s less to do with religion, and everything to do with human nature.
From Ancient Egyptian Priests and Medieval Christianity, to Donald Trump and Boris Johnson - when in times of uncertainty, people will turn to anyone claiming to have all the answers.