A delicate balance

Comments

• solsangraal@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  unfortunately this country is increasingly leaning towards martin luther’s take on reason:

  “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.”
  ― Martin Luther

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  • smeg@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    This country of Lemmy?

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    • Pandantic@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      .uk

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  • OpenStars@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    That is not a great quote to use fyi (I mean this one here by Martin Luther - whereas the one from Carl Sagan is *fantastic* imho:-).

    I have heard an analogy in that it is like saying that the Mind is one's greatest adversary to a child learning how to swim - true, but when quoted out of the surrounding context (in this case iirc it was Reason *alone*, unaided by Faith - or something to that effect but I could be misremembering so don't take this part as... well... *gospel*, pun intended:-) really comes off super poorly. Similarly with wanting to exercise - "Mind" here does not mean merely "mind" as in mental faculties, just as "Reason" != "reason".

    Also the quote is disputed as even coming from Martin Luther himself rather than one of his students.

    More at https://randalrauser.com/2011/10/quote-others-the-way-you-would-have-them-quote-you/ in case it helps.

    Now a quote of my own (by me, from right this second): if we want to rise above the teeming unwashed masses and truly use Reason, then we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard (than those we accuse of not doing such). It's just a thought: do as you will with it.

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    • mc900ftJesus@lemy.lol ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      That’s a terrible counter argument. “Oh maybe he meant something different, you might not know the context he plainly said it in 8 different ways you just quoted”

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    • solsangraal@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      it’s incredible to me how someone can take

      Reason is a whore… never comes to the aid of spiritual things

      and turn it into some weird word salad that has some completely different meaning than what the quote literally says. because, as usual, “oUt Of CoNtExT”

      also, who cares who said it? the message is the message regardless if it came from martin luther or some rando pulled it out of their ass 10 minutes ago-- and it’s the direction this country is heading

      finally, “a higher standard” of reason-- the people i’m talking about defenestrate reason, logic, facts, evidence-- everything one would use in the process of critical thinking, in favor of faith, which literally means believing something to be true just because you want it to be. there IS NO standard there. using reason AT ALL means one is rising above them

      do as you will with whatever you want

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    • algorithmae@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      “In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am englightened by my intelligence.”

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• shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Grew up watching Sagan on PBS. After church let out. Isn’t that strange?

  I have a deep-seated idea that dad (granddad really), went to church for social reasons, wasn’t a believer, but wanted his son to rise about religious thought. Some of dad’s dying, intimate thoughts which my granduncle shared made me wonder.

  Anyway, dad encouraged me to learn about science and nature. Bought me a VIC-20, years of Ranger Rick subscriptions, and sent me to computer camp for two summers. Now I’m an atheist in my 50s and have an IT career. Go figure.

  I’d kill to watch NOVA with him again.

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• ininewcrow@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  “… keep their minds open—‘but not so open that your brains fall out.’”

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  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    That quote was always fun before it became a common reply to evidence based thinking instead of gut feeling basws thinking

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• Sam_Bass@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  The Deep Nonsense is winning the war

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• drmoose@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  We known since our very inception that balanced takes are the most healthy and efficient path forward from Aristotels Golden Mean to Taoist’s balance in all things and this awesome quote by Carl Sagan here as well.

  Yet here we are, in a time where it should be the easiest option we have all sort of idiots from alt right to tankies. The fact that these people have such strong voices is simply degeneration no matter how you look at it.

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  • kopasz7@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    While I agree that most things require a compromise of two extremes, it is also important to acknowledge how they could result in worse outcomes.

    Eg 1: You are sick; the doctor prescribes antibiotics. But you have some concerns about them so you only take it until you feel better.

    But now the pathogen is still there, and it will rebound with new strength. (there’s also a chance it becomes resistant due to selective pressure and its survival)

    Eg 2: Compromise of democracy and authoritarian state. Those countries’ governments tend to be more stable and enduring that are either of the two, but not a middle of the road. This is why the reansition from one to the other is usually turbulent as well.

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    • drmoose@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Fair point but I don’t think it applies here. Balanced doesn’t necessarily mean a compromise.

      In your first example Golden Mean would be to take antibiotics until you are fully cured not less not more.

      Same for your second example. Going too far in autocracy would could mean efficiency but also injustice and going too far into democracy could mean nothing ever gets accomplished due to endless indecision. This is exactly what elective democracy is so effective imo as it’s a Golden Mean of these two edges.

      That’s what Golden Mean means - the center is where magic happens and the edges are always full of failure.

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• big_fat_fluffy@leminal.space ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  There is also the assumption of the central importance of ideas, which is a rather deranged perspective when you think about it.

  Don’t get me wrong, ideas have high utility, for memory and language and such, but still.

  An idea is just a little thing, and any association between it and the rest of reality is purely contrived.

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  • sus@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    well sure, epistemology says we can never be absolutely sure of almost anything. But the alternative to ideas is… what exactly?

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    • big_fat_fluffy@leminal.space ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      We can still observe and discuss methods for making observations.

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  • nifty@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Yes, that’s why the skepticism and scientific method is needed

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    • big_fat_fluffy@leminal.space ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      But the point of the scientific method is to get us high-quality ideas. How would that cure the derangement of an idea-centered perspective?.

      Maybe if you removed the model-making part. Leave the primacy of observation and the utility of peer-review. Maybe.

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• Trollception@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Man… Look at those big balls

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• BudgetBandit@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Science: I say it is so because I can not disprove it.

  Also science: I was able to disprove it, but what if…?

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