Comment on NCSoft president: "The games industry's evolution towards acceptance and diversity is ongoing"
Aielman15@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I feel the problem is not the industry but the fanbase. As of the last few years, it’s become pretty common to see videogames become target of hatred for “going woke”: H:FW’s Aloy’s “peach fuzz”, TLOU2’s Abby being too masculine, women not living to the average beauty standard, LGBT characters “shoved down people’s throats”, character editors decoupling gender and sex or using gender-neutral language, narrative being cringe because it targets millennials (as if older games didn’t target young audiences, too)… The industry is going forward, but I don’t think the fanbase is ready yet.
Sometimes I think the fanbase is regressing, even. I’ve seen people lamenting increased “politics” in their videogame, yet saying that MGS or FFVII or Bioshock are their favourite games. Gamers don’t even pay attention to what they consume, they merely parrot whatever their favourite influencer says. “Woke” is a meaningless term that gets thrown around whenever they don’t like something.
I feel like that’s just a very loud minority among those who play games. As you’ve so stated, the majority of people who play these games either do not care for politics in video games, and another subset prefer it that way.
If even the greediest of companies in the video game industry keep doing that, that means they’ve analyzed the market and having politics in video games might have between no to a positive impact on sales.
I heavily agree with this. If there’s one thing I’ve learned about video games and gamers, it’s that people who are happy with their games, are playing their games! The people who aren’t happy, are going to Reddit and the forums to bitch and moan. The anti-“woke” crowd is fueled by outrage. And that’s all it is: senseless outrage. There’s no substance to it. Let them scream into the void until they tire themselves out.
That hatred comes from like 0.1% of gamers, if that.
No, the fanbase is regressing, but they’re also not getting products that suit their tastes. There’s a lot of stuff to play that’s different, and the people that removed go back to the dwindingly bad quality AAA Live Service slop. They’re not for us. When the AAA bubble bursts, they’ll fuck off to another form of media.
I disagree. The rule is “sex sells”, always has, always will be, period.
The people that complain about “wokeness” in games are a small but loud minority. The majority doesn’t care, hells seeing the steam achievements for some games the majority doesn’t even care to finish a game past the tutorial yet alone care about story or characters.
The problem is the approach to game design has changed. In the earlier stages of gaming, you would take a fun concept (finding perfect fits for boxes) and make it into a game (Tetris), that was all there was, Super Mario was literally called “Jump & Run Man” at one point. It was the essence of fun presented in a replayable form.
Now games have to have a story, morals, relatable characters or some sort of overlaying message. This together with good gameplay can create a very good game no doubt. But each aspect has to be good on its own.
Take away the story from Last of Us and it’s essentially a 3rd person arena shooter, but it’s a good one at that. This alone would be a good selling point, add on top the story and you have an objectively good game.
But take Saint Row 5 as an example, take away the story and it’s a less than mediocre 3rd Person sandbox game, the fact that the story isn’t compelling either makes it objectively bad.
Rember the Hot/Crazy scale from His I Met Your Mother? Well there is also a Hot/Boring scale for games. If your game is boring it has to compensate by having hotter characters, if it’s fun it can get away with uglier ones. I can name countless examples where this is true.
Studios often overlook this connection. I’m all for diversification of the actual development environment but not the games themselves. It should always be fun first.
Never in my life have I heard anybody say “Are you going to get new game …? I’ve heard you can play as a black woman in this one. So cool.”
Studios then get upset because their model “Here diversity. Where money?” isn’t paying off.
It’s like not wanting to buy a cheaply made plastic valve for a boiler over a solid metal one and the company asks “Why are you not buying it? We made it blue.”
The fanbase is never going to change, because at some point we all realize that we want value for our money and often times studios spend so much time and effort making a game diverse, they forget to make it fun.
You’re blaming games not being fun on devs “wasting time” to ensure diversity in their games? You realize the people who work on the story and characters aren’t the same as the ones coding the game mechanics right? The two have almost nothing to do with one another. Studios aren’t forgetting to make games fun due to diversity lmao. They are having to spend a lot more man hours than they did in the past because of the advancements in development tenchology.
Never in my life have I heard anybody say “Are you going to get new game …? I’ve heard you can play as a black woman in this one. So cool.”
Hrm, anecdotally I have quite a lot of formerly non-gamer friends who were really hyped for say, Life is Strange: True Colors, specifically because they were excited about how Alex breaks some beauty norms and gets to flirt with Steph on top of that.
Of course, anecdotally.
But it’s important to keep in mind that we’re no longer an industry of 5 teams creating 20 games a year. There’s so many games that there is more than enough space for every game. From absolutely purist near-identityless gameplay-only designs (Which exist in droves) to huge mass-market hyper-produced open worlds all the way to purist story/feels only visual novels and experimental art pieces.
And each of these categories has more games each year than the entire market around the Gameboy time had. Gaming is insanely big now.
Never in my life have I heard anybody say “Are you going to get new game …? I’ve heard you can play as a black woman in this one. So cool.”
I have. It was more along the lines of, “Dragon Ball FighterZ has no waifus” or “there’s no one with any melanin in this game [until they found out about Nagoriyuki in Guilty Gear Strive]”. I would not be the least bit surprised if Street Fighter 6 is more popular with women than any previous entry after taking the bad male characters from previous entries and remixing them as women (Manon, Lily, A.K.I., Kimberly).
I definitely play a few horny games, and don’t recommend them to anyone. In the other hand, I have actually skipped certain games, and hated some others, because they were trying to tell an engaging story and got hung up on cringey sexualization of their female leads.
As you said, it’s all up to consumer preference. It isn’t just watch-dogging and shaming of sexualization, it’s also that there’s a lot of people that find lazy sexualization to be disengaging and hardly unique. Plenty of the time getting the characters to look unique and interesting is also a challenge; and diversity often helps with that.
‘Going woke,’ is referring to intent.
Are you meeting quotes or actually engaging with race on a substantiative level.
It’s undoubtable that a lot of race casting in recent times has been to appease audiences rather than and honest engagement with reality and irl race relations.
Intent… it matters.
Intent does matter.
But the vast majority of complaints about a game being “woke” are just the inclusion of a character this a minority in some way. The complaint isn’t about how they’re included, just that they are, usually as a main or highly visible character.
I disagree… of course in countries like America you would have some outspoken actual racist n shit…
But the vast majority of people just don’t like casting for castings sake…
Nobody bitches about sigourney weaver in alien… nobody bitches about Denzel playing leading roles cos he’s black, calling it 'woke. ’
Why don’t people call that woke?
Because its obvious. When a project is hiring just to fill a quota, often…it is extremely obvious.
The vast vast vast majority of people don’t care what race, gender,sexuality you are, just as long as those things werent being taken into account when trying to get a job.
Yaknow… basic equal human rights stuff.
So if that’s all it’s about, why is there so much complaining about the race or gender of fictional characters in a video game?
Why don't people call that woke?
Because this whole woke bullshit is a recent gamergate thing of the past decade or so, especially after US politics became even nuttier and "conservatives" completely started to lose their plot.
And please. Just go into the Steam forums of a game that has for example a poc woman as main character, or uses body type A & B instead of "male" & "female". There's literally countless of examples of people completely losing their shit over games, movies and shows over the recent years. Hell, even in this very comment section here we see people who think they as a white man are apparently underrepresented nowadays.
People just want to play a game. Not have to go from a normal non sexualized zombie game to a now weirdly sexualized zombie game. And then they were made to be the bad guy for not wanting to play the game. If I don’t want to watch a LGB kind of movie that’s no problem because I’m not LGBT but when it comes to games I’m homophobic for not wanting to participate.
The problem is the industry thinks the fans owes it to them to play their shitty based game. We don’t have to play if we don’t want to. And it doesn’t make us non inclusive for not.
This same person will claim that Dead Rising, a series that’s had hot twin sisters battle you with katanas, is not sexualized.
That has to be copium. If I don’t want to play the game then I don’t have to lmao be mad. Idc if hot twin sisters battle me with katanas if you do then… Don’t play?
I think you missed the point of the person you replied to.
but when it comes to games I'm homophobic for not wanting to participate.
No, you're a bigot for publicly crying about it on end instead of just not buying it. No one would give a shit about you for you not buying a game. It's when you go to the forums and start crying woke.
I have not cried woke. In fact nobody cries about the wokeness or whatever bullshit they dislike in games. It’s actually quite the opposite. Where posts like this cry about people for not wanting to participate. It’s fine for me to have and even state my opinion that I’m not gay so I don’t want to play a game advertised as being a gay kind of game lmao. Especially on a post like this. If you truly didn’t give a shit then… You wouldn’t give a shit. Why respond here?
In fact nobody cries about the wokeness or whatever bullshit they dislike in games. It's actually quite the opposite.
lol
If you truly didn't give a shit then... You wouldn't give a shit. Why respond here?
Oh no... Are you offended that I'm not tolerating your intolerance? I'm so not sorry.
You’re a homonculus
Sure, it is largely the fanbase, however I also think that the game industry seems to sometimes do somewhat of a “woke-washing”, meaning supporting the LGBTQIA movement because of financial, shitstorm-prevention or other reasons than just wanting to create more diverse and inclusive games.
For instance I like Hogwarts Legacy, but it also takes place in the Victorian era, and it seems to project the modern tolerant society ideals onto the wizarding world of that time.
Depicting the society as inclusive and diverse is somewhat history revisionist. If you play as a non-binary or trans person at that time, then you should have to deal with prejudice and marginalization, otherwise you just “woke-wash” the history.
So, IMO there are some cases, especially in historic (fantasy) games, where injecting modern ideals and standards might not fit or needs to be better addressed, than just let it be cosmetic.
Just don’t do a have hearted job.
huginn@feddit.it 3 months ago
Fan base isn’t regressing - there’s just an increasingly polarized contingent that won’t stop wailing about every snub.
Overall the gaming fan base is growing because of this embracing of diversity.
NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Yeah it’s just a loud group of dipshits that want games to be a safe space for their regressive views.
Renacles@lemmy.world 3 months ago
They can’t go 3 words without saying “woke”.
Wokewokewokewokewoke…
billiam0202@lemmy.world 3 months ago
The Helldivers 2 Steam review page is covered with reviews from accounts that don’t even own the game begging Arrowhead to “not add WOKENESS!” to the game.
huginn@feddit.it 3 months ago
What review page are you talking about??
I went to check out the reviews and all I see is people complaining about Sony blocking out so many countries. I don’t see a single “woke” complaint.
Are you sure you’re not just hearing that people have complained and then assuming they actually did?
billiam0202@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Sorry, you’re correct- it’s not the reviews, but the comments on any announcement made by the devs.
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The lack of mouse icon next to their names means those Steam accounts don’t own the games.
ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
How they can review a game without own it on steam?
billiam0202@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I edited my comment, but I was wrong in that it’s not the review page that gets swarmed but the comments on announcements that Arrowhead makes. Anyone can comment on an announcement (which makes sense, if [for example] it’s about an upcoming feature that isn’t out yet.)
DarkThoughts@fedia.io 3 months ago
I'm guessing they buy, review, refund? Not sure if that also removes the review as I almost never refund or review games.
bobotron@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Ding ding ding