Comment on I'm right and the other vegans are wrong

lime@feddit.nu ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

• Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Those extremists would be very upset if they could recognize reality

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  • Grail@multiverse.soulism.net ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Reality is a social construct defined by the dominant ethnic group and manipulated by the Epstein class to control us.

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    • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      …I miss the days when radical statements sounded far off and crazy. Now they just sound like statements of undeniable truth.

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    • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I’d say it’s defined by the dominant group, but that group isn’t necessarily an ethnic group. For a example, Sundar Pichai and Jensen Huang are certainly a part of that group. It’s not limited to white Anglo-Saxons anymore.

      We really need to stop looking at the issue by pigeonholing it into racial, gender, or sexual categories, because that does not reflect the reality. There are gay oligarchs. There are women oligarchs. There are oligarchs of every skin tone.

      These are counter-examples, of course; deviations from what we might consider the “norm,” which is cishetero white male oligarchs. Pointing out that it’s not limited to the latter isn’t a denial that the latter form a disproportionate majority of oligarchs. That’s the part a lot of people miss when I bring this up.

      The fundamental issue though is class disparity, which we cannot lose sight of; even if there are other demographic trends within that disparity. Trying to make it about anything else is overly reductive and harmful.

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    • Zombie@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      For example:

      HyperNormalisation is a 2016 BBC documentary by British filmmaker Adam Curtis. It argues that following the global economic crises of the 1970s, governments, financiers and technological utopians gave up on trying to shape the complex “real world” and instead established a simpler “fake world” for the benefit of multi-national corporations that is kept stable by neoliberal governments. The film was released on 16 October 2016 on BBC iPlayer.[2]

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation

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• wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Honestly, I’m on Team Honey, but that argument has a glaring hole in it.

  Which is that many apiaries put an object over the entrance to the hive which lets worker bees pass freely but blocks the queen from escaping. And worker bees bonded to a queen will literally die before abandoning her.

  So they can’t just leave. Bees that do that in the while travel as a colony in what’s called a swarm (which is actually very docile because they have no hive to defend). A bee that gets separated from its colony dies.

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  • electric_nan@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I’m not an expert by any means, but I have known some beekeepers. Once I was asked to go help because one of their hives had “swarmed”, meaning a group had left the box with the/a queen and had posted up on a neighbors rose bush.

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• mittyta@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I agree with you on the fact, but willingness to stay does not equal informed consent.

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  • veryblandusername@fedinsfw.app ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Informed consent does not exist in the animal world and I’m very saddened that that’s a sentence I had to type.

    You cannot apply human standards to animals, they do not understand contract law…..again, a sentence I’m just very sad I had to type because they didn’t understand that.

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    • Fawkes@lemmy.zip ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I’ve tried to have this discussion SO many times, and every time I’m treated like there’s nothing I love more than raping goats and torturing pigs.

      That cow that lives on the hobby farm, spends its days roaming fields and eating flowers, then gets milked in the evening and petted with genuine love and affection, is not worse off because the farmer didn’t create a formal contract in order to obtain it’s consent to be milked.

      It gave its consent by walking to the milking station, and waiting to be milked.

      “Nuh uh! That’s not consent! It didn’t learn English and say the words ‘I consent to being milked,’ therefore milking it is evil!”

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      • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        I have to imagine that those people are virgins, because no one is signing a 17-page contract prior to getting it on.

        Consent is allowed to be simple as long as it’s obvious and real. I shouldn’t need a law degree to suck a dick.

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      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        People who would be angered by this aren’t reachable, ya just gotta block em.

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      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        I have known vegans IRL who are genuinely reasonable and can discuss this stuff. On the Internet, 95% of the time you just cannot even discuss it with someone who identifies as vegan, I would imagine even if you’re a vegan yourself, unless you 100% agree with them on how to apply the philosophy. In this very thread I asked a question and it was all but ignored and I was assumed to be shitting on veganism rather than questioning a specific argument/interpretation of it. I think it sucks because I literally agree with like 90% of everything any vegan says, it’s when they veer away from the facts and more toward personal feelings they have that I cannot talk to them about it anymore. It makes sense on the one hand because if that viewpoint resonates with you it’s gonna make you upset to think about and to be shit on for, but on the other, if it cannot even be discussed without false assumptions, insults, and avoidance of inconvenient facts on their part, they’re just going to lend credence to the anti-vegan prick arguments. Because of this extreme inability to even discuss the topic I have to block a lot of vegans because I’d rather do that than always remain silent for fear of upsetting them. They always seem 100% convinced I’m an evil carnist who hates them and is pretending not to be just to erode veganism, but it’s just not so.

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      • veryblandusername@fedinsfw.app ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        You just gotta stop giving a damn what dipshits think.

        Post your initial message so that some passerby might glean some insight and then move on.

        The opinions of people whom I will never ever see nor interact with ever again means less than nothing. They can think I’m the biggest fucking idiot in the world, doesn’t matter to me, I’ll sleep just fine.

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  • CyanideShotInjection@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Exactly, feed them sugar and they’ll happily stay, that’s not saying it’s good for them. Plus all the monoculture on which they often feed is detrimental to their survival as a species. It’s funny to me how in this capitalist world, there is a living being that is somehow not immorally exploited.

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    • RobotToaster@mander.xyz ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Exactly, feed them sugar and they’ll happily stay

      Guess I’m a bee.

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    • roguetrick@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Good news: we’ve found ways to satisfy them with the conditions while also killing the hives.

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    • lime@feddit.nu ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      that makes sense.

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  • lime@feddit.nu ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    completely fair, and a response that would hawe been greatly appreciated at the time.

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