Its not good, because you are now playing into the toxic norms that already exist. So its ok if straight stuff is upfront, but gay stuff has to be optional? This is completely pathetic and I will never support this, this team or game.
Comment on Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 Director Says It Did Gay Romance "Right" By Not Going "Woke"
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 2 days ago
In a lot of places, not just far-right assholes, the word “woke” has taken on the role of terms like “social justice warrior” and “political correctness” - i.e. in describing a self-righteous, superficial, performative and preachy kind of style.
Yes, that is not what the word “originally” meant, yes it is partially the result of right wing propaganda, yes “political correctness” and “sjw” have similar issues, but it is still a real thing.
What the man seems to me to be trying to say is that their goal was to do a medieval gay romance in a way that was not preachy or superficial – is that not good?
mellowistheyellow@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 2 days ago
because you are now playing into the toxic norms that already exist’
how? I don’t get it.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 days ago
In a lot of places, not just far-right assholes, the word “woke” has taken on the role of terms like “social justice warrior” and “political correctness” - i.e. in describing a self-righteous, superficial, performative and preachy kind of style.
LOL no, “woke” is anything that acknowledges LGBT+ individuals exist and have a right to live their lives as they want is woke. These fucking snowflakes cry about being asked to pick fucking pronouns, even when there is 0 impact on the game.
Crying ‘woke’ instantly tells me all I need to know about someone. The same goes for people who try to pretend it’s about preaching a message instead of acknowledging these people can and do exist.
What the man seems to me to be trying to say is that their goal was to do a medieval gay romance in a way that was not preachy or superficial – is that not good? Isn’t there a bit too much token representation and pinkwashing going on?
And you’re parroting the message loud and clear. Acknowledging their existence is always tOkEn RePrEsEnTaTiOn
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 2 days ago
LOL no, “woke” is anything that acknowledges LGBT+ individuals exist
…so the guy who directed a game where you can have a medieval gay romance, does not acknowledge that LGBT+ individuals exist?
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 days ago
…why do you think he has to say he’s not “doing that woke shit” while doing nothing particularly different from “that woke shit”? He had to get on front of people who agree with him who were going to cry about a gay romance existing, but now they have a narrative to follow when it comes up.
In other words, “it’s different when we do it”
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 2 days ago
Alternatively, as I wrote: in some places, the word “woke” has taken on the role of terms like “social justice warrior” and “political correctness” - i.e. in describing a self-righteous, superficial, performative and preachy kind of style - and he wants to distance himself from that style.
NostraDavid@programming.dev 1 day ago
LOL no, “woke” is anything that acknowledges LGBT+ individuals exist and have a right to live their lives as they want is woke.
OK, body type 2. My experience is that it is a slippery slope, and every time something is accepted, some weird Tumblrite-type comes out the woodworks with a new need; want; requirement. - it’s never-ending. It’s fucking weird, and I’ve turned non-accepting over the years.
Does that mean that MMIWG2SLGBTQQIA+ peoples are all evil devils? Obviously not. But I’m not kowtowing to a tiny minority that wants the majority to make way for them, in places where it’s really not needed, nor wanted. I just wanted to play videogames.
Dremor@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Removed under rule 2.
Try to not push your arguments in a offensive way next time.
Any person has the right to be acknowledged as they are, not as other want be to be.
Speaking of vocal minority, I’d add the one who tries to erase any LGBTQ+ from anywhere visible (books, games, speech). Which you seem to support, according to your comment.
Katana314@lemmy.world 2 days ago
So what should be the word we use for “media that depicts positive social ideologies?” Apparently “woke” includes the definition “while being super preachy about it.”
Of course, in that split, it’s also common people will call something “preachy” when a gay guy is there, and doesn’t even waste the viewer’s time. It happened to that horrible conservative animated show, as well.
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 2 days ago
So what should be the word we use for “media that depicts positive social ideologies?” Apparently “woke” includes the definition “while being super preachy about it.”
For a lot of people it does, yeah. I don’t know if the best solution is to run away from the word, though – like you say, it’s good to have a word for this stuff, and a different word is just as susceptible to being tainted by conservative strategists.
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
Yes, that is not what the word “originally” meant, yes it is
partiallycompletely the result of right wing propaganda, yes “political correctness” and “sjw” have similar issuesFixed it for you.
It is a common conservative tactic, taking the language of something meant to improve the lives of minorities in some way and turning it into a negative thing. As you said, they did it with “politically correct” in the 90s, “social justice warrior” in the late 2000s, “woke” in the 2010s, and are currently working on “DEI.” It’s how they control the narrative and normalize their hatred. And it’s why Tim Walz calling them “weird” was so effective and why they got so upset by it - and why I’ll never forgive the Democrats for muzzling him when we finally had a weapon to fight back against this insidious colonialism of language.
The fact that you believe that there’s a middle ground where the definition isn’t an attack on minorities means that they’ve succeeded in shifting the Overton Window and you’ve become used to the hatred yourself. Every single one of those terms that you mentioned was redefined for the sole purpose of being used to attack anybody who dared to openly talk about being a minority or exist as a minority.
The “woke” are as real as the “blue haired girls with pronouns SJW getting off the ‘Down With CIS’ bus and assaulting people” of 15 years ago, and the token representation that you’re talking about is what’s known as “rainbow capitalism,” not “woke.”
“Self-righteous, superficial, performative, and preachy” are the exact words used to describe a gay man daring to exist in public or talk about being gay in any way and not hide away like Section 28 and Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell are still in effect. That’s what “woke” means when used under the new definition: a minority dared to openly behave like a minority in public and not be ashamed of it.
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 1 day ago
Given the state of the world, and the anti-elitist sentiment going around, the fact that there aren’t genuinely leftist parties getting 70+ percent of the vote in a lot of countries, is a fucking wonder.
Part of the reason for that, is the academization of the left. One of the problems that has brought with it, is a nitpicky focus on the correct use of language.
If we are to succeed, the vast majority of leftist will necessarily have to be people without the right university degrees, or who do not hang out in the kinds of circles where they get socialized into acceptable language.
Going all fire and brimstone because someone uses a bad word, often quite innocently, is an effective way to come off as self-righteous and preachy. Acting like that is the most important part of politics, is a good way to come off as superficial.
There’s a reason why conservative strategists grab on to this and amplify it – because they know that this kills the left. The left does not work if it is not broad and populist.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t all try to be considerate or strategic with how we use language - but save the fire and brimstone for the elites and the material issues.
The fact that you believe that there’s a middle ground where the definition isn’t an attack on minorities
What I believe is that this is what the word means to a lot of people. We might want to change that, but right now you’re doing it wrong
alakey@piefed.social 2 days ago
If he was trying to say that, he would’ve said that. “I think the reason why our game succeeded in portraying a gay relationship in medieval times, when it was definitely not as widely accepted as it is today, was because we took that fact into account and developed the story around it, so it made sense while still representing a group that existed throughout all history.” != “We still pander to the gays for free sales but not like those woke guys.”
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 1 day ago
it does involve some judgement against said preachiness, I guess I see that
Tedesche@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Thank you. I’m a lefty myself, but leftists have such a hard time seeing that criticism of their own side actually has validity. I totally understand what this developer is saying about depicting a progressive topic without being “woke” (preachy) about it. I see the same thing in movies/shows that depict female heroes—there are some that just mad the hero a woman, and then there are others that pump the “girl power” angle, overplay the female lead, make it explicitly clear she’s better than all the male characters, bloat the script with feminist jargon, blah, blah, blah. It’s stupid. You want to do the progressive thing? Fine. Just do that. Don’t brow-beat your audience with a political message about it.
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 2 days ago
yep, it’s great to have a progressive message, but a progressive message is not an easy-button - you still have to do the hard work of making good art
MagnificentSteiner@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
Now now, don’t be getting all reasonable. This is the internet after all!
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 2 days ago
sry