I’ve never really understood gaslighting.
Yes I know the original definition.
Yes I know the phrase is overused to describe behaviour it really doesn’t apply to.
I just cant imagine someone actually planning to manipulate someone in this way.
Comment on Anon needs a good response
ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 21 hours ago
The funny thing is when people say “you’re gaslighting me”, but actually you’re the one being gaslit.
Really the problem with things like this is just when they’re used in bad faith to gain rhetorical advantage. It’s fine to say something to the effect of:
“I believe you’re gaslighting me. Here’s what I remember happening, and here’s some supporting evidence. What you’re saying is that it didn’t happen that way. If your intention is not to intentionally try to mislead me about how things occurred, can you explain?”
But just saying “You’re gaslighting me” when really what’s happened is that the way things actually happened is inconvenient to their argument - that’s the issue. It all comes down to their motivation
fizzle@quokk.au 19 hours ago
bizarroland@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people think of gaslighting as if it were intentional, but when I have encountered gaslighting, it has usually come from people who have a different view of events and are unwilling to accept that their viewpoint isn’t the absolute truth of the situation.
They will argue from the viewpoint of “the way I remember things is the way things happened”.
Then when you say that they are gaslighting you, they will say that they are not.
In their mind, they’re just telling the truth of events as they remember them, no malice intended.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
So my father did it, and I don’t think it was intentional, the big thing was that his perspective was to be treated as objective fact in discussions in which he was a part. You could say something like “I’m cold” and he’d respond with “it’s not cold” in a frustrated tone. The long and short of it in how it fucked me up is that I struggle to trust my own subjective reality and feel the need to get permission to feel things. That can be a real problem when it comes time to form and maintain boundaries for example.
fizzle@quokk.au 1 hour ago
Interesting.
That particular example is often a subject of discussion in our house.
The preface is, im absolutely aware that an individuals experience is what matters, rather than my perspective. For example, if a 10 year old child says they’re very worried about a truck they left at the park, its not helpful or relevant that my own stresses and concerns are more impactful - like I lost my job and cant pay the mortgage, what matters is that the child is distressed.
That said, my partner and I often bicker about whether “it’s cold”.
We have twins, who are toddlers. Shes from the “fully dressed in warm clothes at all times” school of parenting, while my approach is… less prescriptive.
Obviously if a child told me they’re cold i wouldnt simply tell them that its not cold, but give them some warmer clothes.
Another point of contention in our house is the heater. We live in a temperate climate and the cost of heating is a significant component of the household budget.
My partner tends to run the heater more often than I would, but often times shes wearing a thin nightgown. Not surprisingly, the accepted approach in most households is to put on more clothes if you’re feeling cold, but of course you can turn on the heater if you’re still cold.
Im really just trying to figure out whether I am in fact a gasslighting asshole, given your example 😆
I suppose a disagreement around use of a heater is not at all the same as telling someone whether “its cold”.
Demdaru@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
My partner’s mother gaslights a lot. Think about scenario: She does something wrong, she backs off from situation for a few days to allow memories to wane a bit, then grabs the weakest link and starts bending the truth to paint herself in a bit better light at worst, and at best, shift whole fault on another person. She focuses on small, easily misremembered parts of story, and if you call her bullshit, she will accuse you of either not remembering or twisting it against her.
And she did that to my partner for their whole childhood and now my partner fights depression and lack of feeling of self worth. Also reacts to “I remember it differently” with aggression, which bites me in the ass but at least shields her from her mother.
I grew up with another gaslighter, my granny, who reframed and twisted everything to be my mothers fault and if she tried to defend then it was her remembering wrong, “not seeing such simple stuff” or being against granny. She did so with malice and ruined my mothers mental health. Same with her husband, who literally hanged himself.
Both cases were narcissistic but I can see someone using it out of other reasons.
Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Gaslighting includes the intention to mislead, leading to another person doubting their own reality. It’s a real thing some people do. When you’re experiencing it, you’re forced into cognitive dissonance as the reality you experience doesn’t line up with what another person claims.
That’s what gives nuance to the concept. Not all lies are gaslighting. Misremembering isn’t gaslighting. It requires a denial of reality that leads to another person second-guessing their own experiences. Gaslighting rarely occurs as a one-off event, it’s part of a recurring campaign that slowly changes how a victim perceives their own reality.
It’s okay to have difficulty imagining it. In fact I’d say you’ve been fortunate not to be exposed to it. Just be aware of it in case you ever find yourself in a relationship where it applies.
MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 21 hours ago
Real gaslighters LOVE the opportunity to further twist facts, or maybe its compulsion. Its better to either disengage entirely or focus on one or two key points their bullshit cannot change
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 hours ago
Therapyspeak is a weaponized toolkit for typically BPD/sociopaths/narcissists to manipulate the situation into them always being right, and the only person whose thoughts and feelings and intentions matter.
It is extremely unforunate that this is the case… but it is the case.
Here’s a maybe relatable shit test:
Are you having conversations with a person that resemble diatribes/debates from SexPestiny or Thor/PirateSoftware?
Yep, that’s a sociopathic narcissists that put a bunch of skill points into therapyspeak/debate rhetoric.
MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 1 hour ago
Welp, you’ve nailed why I find it so ironic/hillarious when I’m told, at length and in excessive/invented detail, that I haven’t internalized/accepted my own failures enough.
Mind you, it almost never involves (even meta-physical)injury or inconvenience to anyone else, so there’s a lot of lip-flapping from people who can explain everything they have a problem with except for how what’s being complained-about is any of their business or problem.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 minutes ago
My new life motto, upon hitting roughly 30:
Suffer no fools.
Be humble, but show no mercy to a hypocrite.
I’ve been abused by enough narcissists that yeah, I’ve got some rough edges to me, but frankly, I’m fine with that, a whole lot of people just fucking suck, and its a reasonably effective autorepellant for people who are too full of themselves to take a joke or criticism.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 10 hours ago
My ex-boss was like this. I felt so much better after he was gone, that is how I realized what a massive piece of shit he really was. My job and life were suddenly much easier, my mental health got much better, and I could think a bit clearer.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 hours ago
We’ve unfortunately built a society, in the US at least, that literally rewards and promotes sociopathy with money.
These people lie and tell you we live in a meritocracy, which itself is gaslighting.
ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 14 hours ago
You have to disengage once you know they’re actually doing it. Same with any manipulative behavior. But if you’re really not sure, I’ve had luck pressing them on why what they’ve said doesn’t make logical sense. If they can’t support it, I can dismiss it and disengage.
MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 1 hour ago
I spent enough of my life believing I was myself toxic that I just doubled-down. My mental-health suffered, but we’re at a point like a stand-off. I have an exit-plan and conditions that will trigger or prevent it, and I hope she does too, but with medication and therapy, I mostly feel like I’m where I want to be. Without it, my relationship would be irrelevant next to all the un-hinged shit I would get up to anyways.
I myself am not all that attached to the truth so much as I occassionally have to remind certain people that trying to convince anyone of utter-falsehoods and “non-disprovable” gibberish is boring, wasted effort, or worse. There is no upshot to abusing those who love you, at least not on a one-way street, and modern society has places if you really want to play the stupidest-possible games of bumper-cars.