Comment on It's just loss.

floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• lowleekun@ani.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Only that we waste a ton of space that we could grow crops for humans to eat instead of feeding it to animals and wasting 90% of the energy. So saying 8 billion people need a lot of food while arguing for animal agriculture is very contradicting. Not even talking about all the greenhouse gases and the way we treat animals.

  Maybe you should engage with some of the arguments these pretentious, condescending jerks are having because your comment has the same energy but none of the arguments.

  source

  • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    yup we need to eat food. It does not have to be meat centric or involve meat.

    source
  • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    The problem is, as you describe, poor logistics management. Not what we actually eat.

    I’m sorry, you’re religious food fanaticism has blinded you to more rational options for dealing with greenhouse gases and animal cruelty. Your black-and-white approach is, clearly, not convincing me enough people to make a difference. So maybe you should focus on something that will make an actual difference: stop being a domineering, asshole, and lecturing people on how they should live their lives.

    source

    • Naich@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      This is the thing - all you need to do is suggest that everyone eating less meat would be good for the environment, and people like you utterly lose their minds. It’s weird.

      source
    • Deme@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      That resource and logistics management problem is a direct result of people eating so much meat, the production of which is inherently inefficient for the purposes of feeding people. Of all the resources that we spend on maintaining and growing an animal, we only get back what goes into growing its muscles. The vast majority is wasted in maintaining the animal so that it doesn’t shrivel up and die before slaughter. Scale back meat production and you get a lot more food for a lot less resources, energy and land. You can’t get that efficiency otherwise. It’s precisely about what we eat.

      I’m almost impressed by how much completely unsubstantiated ad hominem you managed to cram in there. Personally I couldn’t have guessed any of that from the comment you replied to. But if you wish to be taken seriously, maybe focus instead on the actual arguments next time.

      source

      • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        That’s not really arguing against my point. Yes, people should eat less meat, and part of the logistics problem is that too much is currently required. The obvious answer to that isn’t veganism, it’s ramping up the production of lab grown meat. We have an answer, and this is it. T-Totaling meat is just a religious zealot view of how to solve a problem that has better, more rational solutions.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
    • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Go reread their comment and try to find where they are being rude. Your second paragraph is just an odd projection.

      source
    • Aetherion@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      What are these “rational choices” you are speaking of?

      source

      • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        I’m not a university professor, and you aren’t paying me for my time.

        Do your own research. Don’t blame me for your ignorance.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
    • hakase@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Exactly. Vegans promote a false dichotomy due to their religious fanaticism, intentionally ignoring all of the ways we can already mitigate many of the problems of meat production with legislation and existing technology.

      They’re basically pro-lifers, promoting an extremist view of which lives people are or are not allowed to end.

      source

      • Kepion@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Equating people not being all good with the mass suffering and slaughter of sentient beings with religious fanaticism sure is a take, sure is interesting how hot it is it is so many places though wonder what a big cause of that might be?

        Image

        pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4372775/ - keep on with your god given right to boil the planet though!

        source

        • -> View More Comments
    • lowleekun@ani.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      It is really telling how YOU tell ME what i believe, how I feel and how there is no sense in talking to me. Who really is the fanatic?

      I really think you are just upset about all the downvotes (when i engaged there were none btw). Not my fault and i do not hate you or other people simply because they continue doing what they grew up with. I can however hate animal cruelty and i can call out bs when i see it.

      source

      • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        If you projected any harder, this comment would’ve been an IMAX

        source

        • -> View More Comments
    • Mac@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      your* religious food…

      Comment disregarded due to spelling error.
      Try again.

      source
• AbnormalHumanBeing@lemmy.abnormalbeings.space ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  So, I do get where you are coming from - but there are some things to consider. Firstly: while domestication and animal husbandry are pretty old, factory farming and such is very recent and has given everything a pretty new touch. While I think it’s still valid to bring up as an argument, “X has existed as a pillar of our life for thousands of years” is usually not a great argument in and of itself, the same could easily be used to argue for slavery and a lot of other fucked up shit in history.

  Besides that, there is sustainability. Yes grass-fed cattle can actually be sustainable, and allow for utilising land that is otherwise not usable to produce food. Also there is plant matter and “waste” from farming and food production more broadly, that can be utilised in feeding livestock sustainably, which would otherwise be composted anyway (and in some cases, gets pre-composted pretty well by said animals). So, yes, there are ways to produce meat and other animal-derived products sustainably … but that is usually a bit of a cop-out, trying to divert attention from how the vast, vast majority of meat production is not sustainable in mostly water and CO2 numbers.

  source

  • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    The only people who believe that animals cannot be raised as livestock in a sustainable fashion are the closed minded food, fanatics known as vegans.

    It can be done, but not with your limited imagination and viewpoint on the world.

    The problem is that people like you don’t want a solution. You want to be able to simultaneously claim victimhood while also lecturing and condescending to the entire world. Veganism is nothing more than an addiction to the sense of superiority over others.

    If you actually cared about greenhouse gases, or animal cruelty, you’d be willing to explore other options. But vegans are extremists. It’s their way or no way.

    Hi, on the other hand, care about greenhouse, gases, and animal, cruelty, and all of the other downsides to factory farming, but I’m not so stupid, I don’t have a big chunk of my brain, scooped out by religious fanaticism, so I can actually see alternatives.

    source

    • AbnormalHumanBeing@lemmy.abnormalbeings.space ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Dude… you are literally claiming A) that I am vegan when I explicitly wrote that I am not, and B) that I am “not open to alternatives”, when I myself mentioned two aspects concerning how animal raising can be done sustainably, only that that is not what our current system favours due to reasons of maximising profitability.

      source
    • Dojan@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      This subject is very clearly a sore point for you. It might behove you to figure out why that is, rather than spontaneously attacking people that are essentially siding with you.

      source

      • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Oh yes, your food religious extreme ism is somehow my fault. Just another thing that vegans love about being vegan: victimhood.

        Go get your own identity. This one is boring.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
    • Aetherion@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Are you willing to reduce your consumption on meat to better all these negative things of traditional livestock farming, which you mentioned?

      source

      • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Are you willing to give up your false sense of moral superiority and stop judging people?

        Didn’t think so

        source

        • -> View More Comments
    • verdigris@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Factory farming has never been done sustainably. Give an example if you disagree. Or are you one of those homesteader guys who thinks he can raise two cows and four sheep on an acre alongside your field of corn and miniature orchard?

      source
• apotheotic@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Just because things are the way they have been for ages, does not mean they are correct.

  It is a brutal, awful practice and completely unnecessary.

  I am not being condescending or pretentious when I say these things. I understand that it is very, very hard to alter what you’ve done your entire life, and harder still to see the issues with those things.

  Those 8bn humans could be sustained by a fraction of the environmental impact, suffering to life, and land usage if they were on a plant based diet.

  source

  • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    lol

    source

    • apotheotic@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Excellent retort

      source
• Evil_Shrubbery@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  this is the way it’s been for tens of thousands of years

  Human population needed to be fed 10+k years ago:
  1.000.000
  vs now
  10.000.000.000

  source
• TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  people need to eat, but do they need to eat THAT?

  source

  • dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Its not as easy to go eat the wild ones, and people frown at eating from the human population. Those are all the options in the graphic.

    source

    • TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      well damn, i guess ill have to eat a shoe since there’s only a picture of a shoe in my pantry

      source

      • dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Good luck! Some of the soles can be a real challenging chew.

        source
• chetradley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  This is clearly a sensitive topic for you, so believe me when I say that I’m only talking about myself here. Yes, humans have included meat in their diets for thousands of years, but the recent changes that I feel shift the paradigm are: the scope and scale of industrial farming, the brutal conditions animals now face, and the fact that we have a good enough concept of human dietary requirements that people can finally make the choice to remove animal products from their diets in a healthy way.

  source

  • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    That’s some crazy projection you have there. But thank you for confirming that your entire belief system is based off of complete and total bullshit. Lol.

    How sad for you?

    source

    • chetradley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I’d love to hear what I’ve specifically said that’s bullshit.

      source

      • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Wow. Terrible reading comprehension, too.

        source
• stray@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Something I pretty much never see pointed out is that we don’t need billions of humans. Our governments keep encouraging us to have children, but they should be working to end the culture of pressuring people (especially women) into having children because they’re somehow incomplete without them. There should be more programs offering access to birth control and family counseling services. This endless and meaningless growth is as harmful to us as it is to the rest of our planet.

  source

  • Deme@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Our economic systems only work with infinite growth because otherwise what would be the point of lending money if it won’t grow interest. They are essentially giant pyramid schemes. And that requires new blood to provide labour. This is incredibly dumb on a finite planet with limited resources, but that’s mainstream economics for you.

    Also if the population shrinks too fast, then the pyramid becomes unstable with not enough younger people to take care of all the old people (while also maintaining the economy).

    source
  • floo@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    The only reason that governments keep pushing for us to breed is because it feeds the capitalist society which relies on a never-ending supply of willing laborers.

    And, yes, all economies require laborers, capitalism is unique and how it consumes everything, even workers, as a resource rather than simply utilizing them.

    source