Its like having a permenant place nobody ever looks at with no rules.
Way too convienient to get rid of.
Probably more a decision of the intelligence communities more than the military.
Comment on Is anyone planning on doing anything about trump creating a concentration camp at guantanamo bay?
orcrist@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
Gitmo should have been shut down two decades ago. Torture, waterboarding, “advanced interrogation techniques” … don’t think we forgot about that. It’s a shame that no American president had the courage to close down dirty military institutions.
Its like having a permenant place nobody ever looks at with no rules.
Way too convienient to get rid of.
Probably more a decision of the intelligence communities more than the military.
You would prob enjoy Jon Stewart’s “is this fascism?” video.
Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Stop. This is so fucked up. This has nothing to do with president’s od christmas past. This is the current president opening a concentration camp. Just stop with this false equivalence.
jonne@infosec.pub 4 weeks ago
You had 2 Democratic presidents since it opened. It’s a legitimate criticism. Trump is using existing infrastructure that could’ve been dismantled.
Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Thanks captain hindsight. You’re probably the only person who’s thought about gitmo in the last 20 years.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
No, there’s at least two of us.
droporain@lemmynsfw.com 4 weeks ago
youtu.be/RnOTltjungo?feature=shared
Exusia@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Kind of jumping into the middle of yours and his here, but the ghosts of our past is quite frankly always relevant. As a gross oversimplified example, WW1 caused many hard feelings and set the stage hat led to WW2. The end of WW2 left the US in a position to consolidate a large amount of power, while the Soviet Union gathered allies to match. This put In place many scare tactics you see used even today. The collapse of the Soviet Union put Putin in position to become the president for 30+ years. One could say that Germany backsliding caused the Kaiser to put Lenin on a train to the Russian Empire is the reason the world is in the state it is in today.
The ghosts of our past are ALWAYS relevant and pretending things should be changed in a bubble does no good when planning the effects. Torture has been shown to be ineffective and counterproductive. Many voters opposed Citizens United, yet it was passed under Obama. Many citizens opposed the Patriot Act, citing it’s opportunity to be misused to indefinitely hold people. And sure enough Bush signed it and we are still dealing with the repurcussions.
Both Obama AND Biden ran on the platform to close Guantanamo so it could not be misused, and did not. Could Trump have reopened it? Sure! But then we’d be faulting him for reopening it AND using it as a camp. It’s not “both sides nonsense” to say that if Obama had succeeded in it before he left office, we wouldn’t be in this position. He stated as early as 2009, and had 7 years after that to get the votes together, ultimately handing it off to Trump in 2016 with 0 inmates because he failed to get a vote to approve it. Trump didn’t close it for obvious reasons, and then Biden had 4 years to take his crack at it and also failed to close it. And now, here we sit almost 20 years later with bushes prison island still open, being used for the same evil bush used it for - hiding people from the press so those nasty headlines stop because they can’t access the island.
Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Their platform was not, “I will close gitmo”. Maybe somewhere in the parties platform it was in there but that is not what they ran on and quit trying to rewrite history.
jonne@infosec.pub 4 weeks ago
theguardian.com/…/obama-guantanamo-bay-closure-re…
It was definitely something he ran on, and Obama even signed an executive order to do it.
Exusia@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13492
Google isn’t hard to use.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Over turning Bush II’s policies were the primary reason I voted for Obama. Since then, I’ve only depressingly voted for democrats on the basis that they would at least slow the rise of fascism.
This isn’t “both sides”, but if we couldn’t get gitmo closed with democrats, how could we do it with bold faced fascists?
Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Oh, so the expecting was always that a authoritarian was going to seize control of the federal government and open a concentration camps there? Funny, cause I never heard that argument but, yeah, sure, completely salient now.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Bush II was already fascist and used gitmo for exactly that. It’s specifically outside the US boarder so they can make an argument that American civil rights laws don’t apply there. At the very least, press and public can’t reach it.
People were screaming from the top of their lungs that this exact scenario. Yes, this was expected and we cared too much about the economy to care.
K1nsey6@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
You’re talking like it hasn’t always been a concentration camp. If liberals bothered to hold their own people accountable and have an actual red line that couldn’t be crossed, someone like Trump could have never made it into office.
conditional_soup@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
Yes, actually. Edward Snowden risked hanging for treason by leaking the NSA mass surveillance program for just this reason. He’s the last true patriot, imo, and I wish he’d stayed and made the government take him to trial over their blatantly illegal program instead of ending up as a trophy on Putin’s shelf.
conditional_soup@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
Dude, fascism didn’t spring into being fully formed out of nothing on the dawn of January 20th, just as the Roman Republic didn’t crumble in a day. It’s been decades and decades of baby steps towards this point, until we finally got to where things could get much worse all at once. Yeah, Kamala wouldn’t have made gitmo into a concentration camp, but she wouldn’t have dismantled the machinery built by the war on terror and the war on drugs that the fascists are using right now. Let’s not oversell it; at best, she would’ve kicked the can down the road another four years. Our past leaders all had chances and made commitments to close gitmo, and they had the perfect authority to do so, and then decided that they could wield the tools of fascism wisely rather than destroying them so that a future fascist wouldn’t have them just laying around. This is on all of them, too.
Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
… keep wishing in one hand and shit in the other.
conditional_soup@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
Okay, real talk, human being to human being. Things are bad enough as it is. You’re clearly not happy. I saw elsewhere that you said you’ve been trolled since 1 am, and that’s a super shitty sounding feeling. I release you from any charge to respond, you win the argument. Why don’t you take a break, go get some sunshine, drink your favorite hot drink, and call or text a friend, maybe one you haven’t spoken to in a while? Take care of yourself, take a break from social, come back if you want to when you’re feeling better.
Anamnesis@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
How many people has Donald Trump had tortured…so far? His crimes still pale in comparison to George W Bush, who should have been hanged by the neck until dead.
Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Ok?
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
I believe that having the choice to either expand gitmo, close gitmo, or do nothing and leave it for the next republican to deal with, she would choose to do nothing about it, which is still better then Trump and why I voted for her, but it was a depressing vote. She is not more progressive then Obama and Obama did not close gitmo. You don’t gently wine down Auschwitz.
I was excited when Obama won and would close gitmo. I was hopeful that Biden would have a huge program to reunite the separated families. I begrudgingly voted for the cop that the DNC thought was a good idea after months of BLM protests. I’m burnt out now.
peregrin5@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
Gitmo was never an immigrant holding cell before for holding innocent individuals and families. Even if it didn’t exist Trump would have found some other place to set it up. Gitmo existing or not has nothing to do with anything.
orcrist@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
This has everything to do with past presidents. They all wanted Guantanamo Bay to stay open so they could torture and imprison people. They did, and now Trump is.
It’s not like nobody could have predicted this. It’s not like nobody told them, “You should stop torturing people, stop imprisoning them there, and close the place down.” … In fact, they all heard that advice and ignored it, because they were happy to forget about human rights.
Of course Trump is doing terrible things, and this is one of them. But he’s not the first, and he certainly won’t be the last. And what you wrote about Kamala is on-point, but you don’t even see it, do you. Would she have closed Guantanamo Bay down? Of course not. Because she feels the same way.