Can you hide wired conversations behind a language barrier?

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Shadow79@piefed.social⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

I’m mainly talking about conversations that are wired (like those use by law enforcement) when an undercover agent is wearing a wire. Of course, those conversations are recorded but can languages alone obfuscate the nuance of the spoken dialog since each language is different?

Again, not talking about “Spanish to English” level translation where it’s straight forward, rather it’s closer to “Japanese to English” where there are cultural differences, slang, honorifics and personification that can’t be translated properly without given context in advance.

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Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
ALL recordings can be decoded later.

No exception possible.

The only thinkable “workaround” (not always applicable!) is when information becomes worthless or useless after a relatively short time, and the possible decoding would need more time.

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amio@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Just get a translator and you’re screwed. No amount of complexity between any two real, actual languages will make this “good” encryption. That definitely includes Japanese.

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RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The only time I heard of this working is back in WW2 with the Navajo Code Talkers. The Germans couldn’t (or had a very hard time) translate the conversations at all. Not a history buff so I could be wrong on the details.

Best to use an E2EE messenger.

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- snooggums@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The use of Navajo worked because the Axis countries, including Germany, trying to decode were not aware of the Navajo language and were trying to decode it into English/French/etc.
  
  A constructed language is just about the only possibility, but we can translate dead languages up to a point and someone trying to create a language is likely to end up with a structure close enough to make translation trivial.
  
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vrek@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It really depends who is recording you and their resources… Is it Tom down the street who you’re hiding the weekend get away from? Yeah, switching languages have a high likely hood of working. Is it interpol who you’re hiding a human trafficking operation from? Nope, no chance simply changing languages will work.

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nightwatch_admin@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Try Cockney rhyming slang

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notabot@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
In general this isn’t going to work with any language that the people reviewing the recording can find a translator for, however a variant of the idea did serve the Allies in WWII. Native Americans were drafted into the military as “code talkers”. They used their native languages to send and receive radio messages, and, as the Axis powers did not have access to anyone who spoke those languages, they could not understand intercepted messages.

Although no code talkers was ever captured, it is alledged that a member of each unit they were attached to was given a secret duty to shoot them if it looked like they would be, in order to protect the code.

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OwOarchist@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
If the people spying on you are motivated enough, they’ll find someone fluent in that language to fully translate, including the nuance.

Maybe if you used an extremely obscure language there there just aren’t many people who speak it, they would be unable to find someone. But that just becomes an arms race with you trying to find a language obscure enough to overcome their motivation to spy on you and/or their available resources to find a translator. It’s a lot of up-front effort for you, presuming you don’t already know the language and have to learn it … and it’s far from a guaranteed success.

You may have better results with an invented language, one that only you and the people you’re talking to know. And the less similar it is to any existing language, the more difficulty they’ll have in trying to decipher it. Still, not a foolproof plan – if they record enough conversations and pay some intelligent linguists to analyze it, they may begin to be able to decipher at least parts of what you’re saying. And even more up-front effort now: you have to invent a whole language and everyone in the conversation has to learn it.

The more reasonable and practical way would be to learn what sort of speech is and isn’t legally actionable and then tailor your conversation to avoid the legally actionable part. Think of the mob boss telling his underlings ‘This guy bothers me. I wish he would go away.’ His underlings understand that as instructions to go kill that guy. But it’s vague and remains plausibly deniable in court. If that conversation was recorded, the recording would not be slam-dunk evidence against the mob boss.

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ComfortableRaspberry@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Heavy dialects could be an option to make it at least more difficult for those who listen. My step father is from Southern Germany and speaks a moderate Swabian dialect making it difficult for people in mid Germany to understand everything he says even though the basically speak the same language.

He once had car issues in Hesse and wanted to ask the mechanic if it’s okay to leave his car where it’s currently parked. What he said was “Ka’ i den do stong long?”, the generic German equivalent would be “Kann ich den da stehen lassen?”.
Assuming both people know the dialect and are able to talk it fast it may be pretty difficult for a third party to understand fast enough what’s going on.

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CameronDev@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Any org with wiretap capabilities can affort translators. If you used an esoteric language, it might take longer, but likely won’t change the outcome.

Also, if no one knows what you said, you can’t prove what you didn’t say either. So a less ethical organisation could simply claim that you gave a kill order, when it was actually a takeout order. You cant defend against it without also breaking the code.

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