Submitted 1 month ago by DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works to [deleted]
For Context: I’m Chinese American, and I do not feel “ashamed” for my heritage, neither do I feel “ashamed” for being a US Citizen.
The CCP is not my fault. I do not feel any shame of saying I’m from China.
Similarly, the trump admin is not my fault, I voted Harris. I do not feel any shame for being American.
So what is the thought process of people feeling shame/guilt?
Because other people will blame you regardless, so it makes you wish you could avoid even telling them
It’s a sort of in-group cringe.
Part of the social contract in America (at least… this is what I believed growing up here) is that we all kinda share in this thing we all have going. Like, let’s say we get into a war. The government can (and does) ask citizens to join the military and fight and the reason that works is because we all kinda implicitly signed off on it. Yeah, sure, you had nothing to do with the country getting into a war. But because you participated in government, in the system, because we run this thing (nominally) by the standard of democracy and consent of the governed, everyone owns at least a small part of the responsibility for the country’s actions. In the case of a war, that might look like joining the military and “doing your part”. More commonly it looks like paying your taxes and still “respecting” the government, even if it’s not the one you voted for.
Now, like I said, that’s more than anything what I felt when I was a kid. Speaking personally, I’m in a very different headspace now as it relates to governance. I also feel like generally speaking all that’s shifting, though I’ve very little to back that up save… gestures at the past couple of decades of American politics.
More to your question however, I think that the kind of social contract I laid out above kinda explains some of what you’ve asked. Even if you want to say it’s purely performative, that’s fine. But the fact that Americans are “asked” about how they should be governed implicitly puts the idea in our heads that we’re responsible for what our country is doing. It’s not just “some dottering old idiot at the top of the org chart decided this thing”, it’s we. America is doing this thing. Even if the truth really is that some dottering old fool made a decision out of personal ambition or greed. We get it drilled into our heads from a very young age that this is our government. And no matter how much you try to distance yourself from that… it still irks you, somewhere in the back of your head.
Maybe, at some point before I was born, that was expressed as a point of pride. I could see some folks being proud of what America was or what it stood for, once upon a time. Now though? I find it hard to believe that that mindset could find any other expression but shame. And weirdly, I believe that’s true regardless of what your politics are. Different reasons are at play there depending on what your politics are, of course. But lately it feels like everyone’s got some grievance against the government. Some reason to feel ashamed about what “our” government, what “we” are doing. Whatever that thing is for you, you don’t want it being done in your name. But the central trick of American “democracy” is that you don’t get to just walk away. Whatever is being done is being done “in your name” whether you want it or not. And it’s been that way since before you were born.
A tangentially related correlate here is that I feel like a lot of Americans don’t feel represented by their government anymore. I certainly don’t feel that way, and I haven’t since Obama was president. That was roughly back when I was young enough to uncritically believe some of the views I’ve expressed here. Things have changed a little bit. Anyways, the reason I bring this up is because part of what I think is going on is that the social contract is breaking down along the lines of nobody feeling like the government they have is actually representing their interests. Maybe, if this goes on for long enough, the social contract will change into something different entirely. Maybe this “shame” we all seem to feel will turn American society into something different than what it currently is, if it’s given the time to do so. But, I can’t really read the tea leaves on that one. All I know is things just can’t keep going the way their going. Something’s gonna break eventually.
I think it’s those who are tricked into thinking their votes are really determining government things who would directly feel at fault for america. Lot’s of us know we are nothing more than powerless blobs whose only hope is for WW3 to just happen already so America can be forcibly changed.
American tech companies created algorithms that happen to boost videos and news articles of fringe/extreme occurrences that take place here. The mainstream news networks also prioritize content like that, for the same reason: It’s very profitable. Boring news/content just doesn’t make much money.
People who have never visited the US seem to have a very distorted understanding of what everyday life is like here. We display a pretty embarrassing caricature of our country for the world to see.
And to make things even more embarrassing, we made our government ridiculous, and made our politics become pop culture (yet also very tribal) over the last ~15 years.
Similar question pointed at you. I now understand it’s wrong(though not sure why), but when asking an Asian American where their ancestors are from, they get offended and proudly point out that they’re American. Why would you be proud to be an American? Or was I just a few years early and thinking that way?
I mean, different views.
Like, if you gave a North Korean PRC Citizenship (which does not really happen btw, just a hypothetical), then the Now-Former North Korean would probably be proud to be a Chinese Citizen rather than being in North Korea.
Because it’s relatively better by comparison.
So its the same with me. Sure, I know there are far better countries like Norway, but I mean like… Norway does not take many immigrants, and the best place I could be, given my circumstances, is the US. So, it’s less about “I’m proud of my government” or “I’m proud of the history of this country”, more like “I’m glad I’m here instead of [their ancestral country]”. And as to getting questioned, its the fear of getting “othered”, of getting rejected. So its natural to immediately declare their US Citizenship status as a defense.
I mean, I think nowadays, that’s even more so the case.
Like I didn’t really worry about this before. But especially nowadays, if someone, especially someone claiming to be a cop, is trying to talk to me, the first thing I’ll do is immediately declare my Citizenship status and then assert my rights immediately after.
I still have memories of China, and I do not like being there. Not every Chinese American is gonna feel the same way as I do, but, at least in my case, our life in China prior to emigrating was very poor, and it got better in the US. So there’s that.
When’s the last time you were in China? I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just a pushed social media post, but it seems like every city I’ve never even heard of in China looks even better than the best city America has these days. I get wanting to announce your citizenship in defense, but it does seem like it’s in, well, defense. Like how Cuban immigrants were cheering their love for Trump, then got deported anyway. Is it just thinking the leapards wouldn’t eat your face? This, again, bring me back to, why be proud of this? It does just seem like a forced defensive shut-up-and-smile kinda deal. Oddly enough, very much North Korean :/
If you are from China then yes, the CCP is partially your fault.
Americans are embarrassed for how America turned out, because they know they are supposed to have influence over their government.
Because it is their fault.
Hmm… So these posts are now coming up on lemmy. Seems like lemmy is getting on the radar for some mainstream narative control.
Adding that “chinese” bit is a nice touch.
Let me steal all your shit and then give it to my children and then disappear. I’m sure you won’t mind, right? and you’ll let them have it, cause it’s not their fault.
K thanks, Bye!
My personal answer is that people, particularly left-of-center folk from other Western countries, want us to feel like it’s our fault. The way they talk about us.
I don’t truly believe it, but that doesn’t mean I don’t internalize it. Maybe it’s an autism thing.
arnitbier@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Because you are enjoying the fruits of all the bullshit without doing anything to stop it
Just excusing with, I didn’t do it myself so standing here and watching isn’t bad