Atheist Jew here. They really hate me.
Comment on Is there any, any takeaways at all from the next 4 years that's about to happen?
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 week agoDon’t forget to speak up for the disabled and atheists as well.
BertramDitore@lemm.ee 1 week ago
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 1 week ago
See…I’ve never understood what being a Jew is. Not saying I hate Jews. For me Jewish people are like if you discovered a new kind of fish. And this fish was long and skinny like an eel today, and kind of blue tinted. It’s the only fish in the aquarium. But the next day, it’s round like a ball, and red. And has 16 eyes, when yesterday it only had 2. Then the next day this fish is green, and looks more like a shark.
So you’re left asking “Ok…what is this thing???”
A Jew is somehow a religon, but also a race, but also nationality, but also a culture? And each one of those things has nothing to do with the other, but also they’re all interconnected?
In this example, you’re an Athiest Jew. And my brain is like “How is that even possible??? It would be like a white person telling me they were an Athiest Christian”. I thought Judiasm was a religion, so from my perspective, you’re saying “I believe in things that I don’t believe are real”.
Like I said. I’m not hateful. I’m just really really confused. Jewishness: what IS it?
BertramDitore@lemm.ee 1 week ago
I appreciate the question, and like many Jews I love questions like this. It is never hateful to be curious.
Like many/most identities, being Jewish doesn’t mean just one thing to everyone. First and foremost, Judaism is a religion that is passed down through the matriarchal side of the family. So if your mother is Jewish, you’re Jewish. You’re Jewish particularly to other Jews in this instance, even if you don’t necessarily consider yourself Jewish.
Judaism is not a race, full stop. Just like Christianity is not a race. There are white Jews, black Jews, Latino Jews, South Asian Jews, East Asian Jews etc. There aren’t a lot of us as a whole, but we do exist in most racial groups. But Judaism is often correctly linked to ethnicity, which is a set of shared traditions, culture, language, and norms.
There is a huuuuge range of ‘orthodoxy’ under the umbrella of Judaism. Different ‘sects’ holds fundamentally similar values (for example: you won’t find very many anti-abortion Jews), but people inside these different groups will observe their traditions at differently levels/extremes or not at all. Most Jews in America don’t keep Kosher, for example, but most Orthodox Jews do.
Judaism also has a rich tradition of questioning everything (which is why we usually love these kinds of questions). It is not considered heresy to question beliefs or authority, in fact it’s usually encouraged. You’ll find many Jews who openly identify as atheists, and yet most still fully consider themselves to be Jewish. This usually doesn’t bother anyone, Rabbis included. Atheists even hold a place of honor in some Jewish communities, because atheists get their morality from their own values or other people, not from a fear of god or some external force. This is part of why it is pretty common to find Jews (observant or not) who consider themselves atheist.
All of that is to say you don’t necessarily need to believe in god to be considered Jewish.
Num10ck@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Questioning the Jewish religion is deeply part of the Jewish experience, so a person born a Jew is still considered a Jew even when they lack faith. Typically they come back around when they decide how to raise their offspring. Basically if your mother was Jewish, you are always a Jew.
Boozilla@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I’m not a Jew but a few I know who are non-religious told me it is the basis of their cultural and family identity. There are blurry lines around religion, philosophy, and identity. And not just with Jews. There are quite a few Buddhists who practice it as a philosophy but no a religion, and countless other examples.
There’s a guy on YouTube (Esoterica channel) who is a post-theist Jew who (occasionally) talks about this. He observes Jewish traditions and so forth, but he doesn’t think God is real, etc. Fascinating channel BTW.
Anyway, I understand your confusion and I hope this doesn’t sound condescending, I don’t mean to be. I think you’re overthinking it a little bit. I was in the same place years ago.
Hopefully a Jewish person answers you and explains it better than I did.
To give a super silly and reductive example: imagine you belong to a Star Wars fan club that you LOVE being a part of. Some of the members think the Force is real but you do not.
Sanctus@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Here’s an unfortunate hint: we’re gonna have to speak up for everyone, even his own voters.
Asafum@feddit.nl 1 week ago
SIGH …I hate having a conscience sometimes. It would be so much more satisfying to laugh at them… But… They’re people too. Shitty, hateful people, but still people…
anon137@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
-Karl Popper
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 1 week ago
See, I’ve completely checked out at this point. It’s not because of trump. Trump is the symptom. If it weren’t him, it’d be some other asshole. For me the cause is this overwhelming notion that it’s us vs them. Where every issue needs to be seperated by culture. Lets take one example. This isn’t the defining example. The concepts apply to all examples, but we don’t have time on Lammy to read millions of examples. So we’ll look at this one example to get the idea.
Let’s look at abortion. The left says it’s a necessary tool of health care to protect the lives of women nationwide. And the right says it’s an evil tool of the libs to murder babies.
And so you say “Wow, those are some widely polar opposite stances. Ok, so let’s see if we can find some middle ground to work towards a peaceful agreement.”
And the most basic, fundamentally agreeable stance that requires no risk of being morally wrong, would be an incest rape baby. A father rapes his 12 year old daughter. Surely THAT baby, which by definition is inbred, and will likely require a lifetime of medical treatment to care for all sorts of medical mutations, not to mention a lifetime of mental health issues caused by the bullying that comes from a lifetime of being inbred. Surely THAT baby should be allowed to not exist a lifetime of pain.
And the reaction we’ve seen both verbally and by law, is, no. No abortions. No exceptions. It’s the womans fault for getting pregnant. This is god punishing you.
Because anytime there’s a disagreement, they pull the god card. When they can’t logically justify their behavior, god works in mysterious ways. So bow down and bend over.
And somehow, these decisions that god made ALWAYS benefit rich billionare assholes. Because god is an all seeing, all knowing, all loving omnipresent being with control of the entire universe…and yet he just can’t seem to manage his money on earth. So he needs you to donate to his churches, and he needs you to donate to the politicions who use his name in political campaigns. And he needs you to understand that even incest rape babies need to grow up, and give their money too. No child left behind…or something along those lines.
And so you begin to realize there is no compromise with these people, because they don’t WANT compromise. They don’t want peaceful. They want to attack any belief you have. They want to find out what you stand for, so they know how to stand for the opposite of that. Whatever it is.
You could say “I want to be a good neighbor, and follow in the footsteps of Mr Rodgers.”
And they’d say “FUCK YOU!!! YOU’RE A TERRIBLE NEIGHBOR!!! I HATE THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, AND ALL WHO LIVE IN IT! I’M GOING TO BLAST MUSIC AT 3AM, AND RUN CHAINSAWS JUST OUTSIDE YOUR WINDOW, AND LOWER PROPERTY VALUES ON BOTH OUR HOUSES BY NOT TAKING CARE OF MY PROPERTY!!!”
So trump will pass. 2028 trump will be gone. Just as reagan is gone. Just as nixon is gone. Although to be fair to nixon, had it not been for the scandal, he actually had SOME decent policies. Whereas reagan was just one big ball of hate. But, reagan is gone, and his policies still haunt us. Ready for the next asshole to take the reigns. And he’ll have full control of the government. He’ll be able to reign supreme. I’m 41. His policies will affect me at 71. Long after he’s dead, and I’m old. His actions now will do nothing to slow global warming. He’ll speed it up. But again, he’ll be gone. The next asshole after him will do the same. Then after him the next asshole will do the same.
So I’m at a point where I’ve lost my empathetic duty to protect anyone from themselves. I’ve lost any patriotic duty that this country is great, or ever will be great. Because if republicans are going to be this ultimate source for evil, then democrats need to be an ultimate source for good. And they’re not. This isn’t a “both sides” issue. This is “republicans are organized and meticulous with how evil they are, and what they want to accomplish” whereas democrats have their finger up their own ass, don’t learn from history, and lack the balls to take stern action. So the republicans gain power, march 5 steps to the right, then democrats march 1 step to the left. They aren’t both evil, but one is clearly making permanent progress.
So I’ve come to the conclusion that this is what our country is. Our country is racist. Our country is an asshole. Our country is willfully ignorant. Our country is unaccepting of others. Our country historically has killed opposition in ways that were no better than the nazis. In fact, the nazis cited Americans genocide towards native americans as inspiration for their camps. And our country has a leader that campaigned on the concept of cruelty. He campaigned on the concept of racism. He campaigned on the concept of hate.
And America made a choice. They said “Yes.”
Trump is not the problem. If America wasn’t into it, they’d have said no. If trump came in, and spouted hate, and won only states like idaho, and nebraska, while Harris won 40 some states? Then the next republican would know “I can’t use that platform.”
But now, whoever is after trump, will know that hate works.
This is our fault collectively. This is Americas fault.
superkret@feddit.org 1 week ago
I don’t think any country in history has ever recovered from hate like this without being invaded and militarily destroyed first.
Which isn’t an option anymore, due to nukes.
can@sh.itjust.works 1 week ago
Still people, but the lowest priority ones
Glide@lemmy.ca 1 week ago
The only way to start bridging this division is to keep in mind that they’re people too. I’d even argue against calling Trump Voters strictly shitty, hateful people. More often than not, they’re scared, hurt people. They’re people who have been convinced that if they don’t defend themselves and their neighbours, the “other” will come for them.
Never forget that these people all genuinely believe that what they are doing is right. Attempting to dismiss and demean them is only going to further validate that they are right and you are the enemy. We need them to see the right-wing brain rot that has wormed it’s way into the hopes and fears for what it is, and we’ll never get there through further division and demonization.
Asafum@feddit.nl 1 week ago
I do have to admit some hypocrisy in my statement. I’m just too angry to be completely fair lately I guess, but I too have said in the past that I strongly agree with the sentiment that “no one is the villain of their own story.” I do believe that to be true.