Comment on Non-binary

lowleveldata@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  You can argue that about any label of any kind but we have to live in reality, which means people are going to sort themselves and others. “We know who we are by who we are not.“ I just don’t see that stopping.

  It’s kind of like “black owned businesses.” Yeah in an equal society we would all just say “businesses” but we don’t live in one so we need to highlight a group of business owners that are inherently at a disadvantage.

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• Talaraine@fedia.io ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  That's so sad to me. From my POV being non-binary isn't aggressive. It's just that there are more important things to worry about than gender.

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  • lowleveldata@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I think it’s just the term. “Binary” isn’t exactly neutral as it can imply narrow minded. Also labelling non-X imply that everyone else is X which often includes too many people that are kind of in the middle / doesn’t really care.

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    • Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Also have you ever considered the fact that maybe you (or other people) don’t really care about gender labels because you were assigned as the gender you prefer? It seems a bit silly to criticise a group who currently faces a lot of discrimination based on their gender preference. Also are you aware that your argument is often used to discredit the experiences of and as a reason to discriminate against people who identify as non-binary?

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      • lowleveldata@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It seems a bit silly to criticise a group … based on their gender preference

        Like, didn’t I just say that it’s the vibe of the word that I don’t like? Therefore either

        1. I am not criticizing any specific people at all because I’m just talking about how we use words; OR
        2. I am criticizing some people for their taste of words

        and not what you say at all IMO

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    • Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      so what would you suggest people who do not want to be referred to as man or woman call themselves?

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      • mydoomlessaccount@infosec.pub ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Blenders. Gender ephemeral. Intangibles. An even cooler fourth option, probably.

        There are tons of cool names you could go with when your identity lies outside of preconceived boundaries (and pretty much transcends them). But, non-binary’s pretty clinical-sounding, so I guess it’s easier to work into a professional setting or something.

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      • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        grogsnarl the fifth, conqueror of silesia

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      • Stovetop@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        On the gender spectrum?

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      • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        rainbows?

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    • halfway_neko@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      yeah, that’s understandable. i’d never thought about it that way before.

      personally i use enby as a way to say that i am in the middle / don’t really care.

      i think the issue comes from the fact that saying non-binary means specifically non-{man,woman}. whereas i’ve always interpreted it as just non-“specific gender”.

      to me it’s the etc. of gender labels, but i realise that not everyone that i think it describes would want to identify with it.

      (and that means it becomes it’s own label, and now we have to figure out what to call everyone_else all over again. (maybe the whole idea of gender labels was rigged from the start))

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• stembolts@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’m going to use “you” a lot in this post but know I’m using the global definition, I’m not directly addressing you.

  Right, but you must realize that is your perception and not reality.

  If you’ll allow me to take some liberties and use you as an example :

  They are asking you to change your perception of them.
  You are asking them to change/disregard their reality to conform to your existing perception.

  One can be done, one cannot. They’ll still be what they are and now their way of defining themselves is forbidden, by who? Why? This path seems completely irrational.

  And what value does your perception hold anyway? The meaning of every word, sound, and thought in your head is arbitrary, it’s all made up. So obviously language needs to be calibrated with reality from time to time.

  Language has changed to such an extreme degree that you wouldn’t understand your own language 300, 1,000, 5,000 years ago. Why not be upset about that? Seems kinda silly to start a movement to rollback english to 1724, eh?

  That is how I feel about those who oppose groups of people seeking to better define themselves. “I don’t feel what they describe, they’ve organized millions of people who claim to feel the same way to fuck with me, I’m mad!”

  TLDR, it’s logical for language to change and people to carve out niches. Humans aren’t born male and female only, so it seems silly to puritanically declare that because of an ancient understanding of humans, we should ignore modern biology.

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  • lowleveldata@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’m not sure what you are trying to say

    They are asking you… You are asking them…

    Where did this come from? Why am I grouped into some kind of hater group suddenly?

    Language has changed … silly to start a movement to rollback english to 1724

    Ya and I was commenting on how I don’t like the choose of word in this specific change. Why not use better words when you start to describe something new?

    In addition, many were mutilated as newborns

    This sounds like a horror story. What?

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• Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I always think there is a we vs them vibe in the non-binary thing which is kind of toxic

  I dunno if there is much “we” inside the non-binary community. Like Non-binary is an umbrella term that encapsulates everything from a both/neither/almost but not quite binary/gender fluid betwixt multiple states/people who identify as trans non-binary, people who identify as non-trans non-binary/ cultural third genders/ political gender activists /DID people with alters that swap… There’s a lot of different concepts and sometimes contradictory needs there.

  Like people tend to just group non-binary people into a third category and don’t really ask questions of individuals what their actual deal is. I blew a friend’s mind recently when he introduced his enbyfriend to me and while we were out on a walk I asked “Apart from the umbrella non-binary term how do you conceptualize yourself?” because he had never thought to ask that question of either of us.

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