Comment on fossil fuels

blazera@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• match@pawb.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  except that consumers do not have meaningful control over the companies and the corporate leaders do

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  • bleistift2@feddit.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You have control over whether you eat pork or tofu, don’t you? You have control over whether you buy a new iPhone or a used FairPhone, don’t you? You have control over whether you plan a trip via airplane or via train, don’t you?

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    • NotBillMurray@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Shifting the blame to the individual plays precisely into the hands of massive corporations. People buy what is available and cheapest, and without government intervention that’s going to be plastic packaging wrapped in more plastic.

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      • bleistift2@feddit.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Why not both? Companies that peel bananas and wrap them in plastic for sale are garbage companies. And people who buy them are garbare people.

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    • something_random_tho@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yes, and I deliberately make choices to reduce my footprint. But it’s not enough, people are naturally greedy and think only as far as next quarter’s earnings, hence the need for regulation to account for long-term costs to the world.

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    • pennomi@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Well, in the US trains probably aren’t an option. But you’re exactly right. The reason corporations pollute is because we buy their stuff.

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      • Num10ck@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        corporation pollute because the governments let them, and its cheapest. governments let then because they are corrupted by the corporations.

        if/when executives can get the death penalty for crimes against earth, they will still find a way to supply stuff to market.

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      • AlternatePersonMan@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        The argument is that corporations do what they want, often not because we want to buy their stuff, but because:

        • we don’t have a choice
        • they hide what they’re doing through propaganda, lies, obfuscation, etc. so we don’t know about it
        • powerful lobbying

        Here’s some examples:

        • Cigarette companies spent decades convincing people their product was harmless and Even good for you. The oil industry has been covering up climate change the same way.
        • Trains are rarely an option in the US, because of subsidies to planes, roads, etc. Car companies pushed hard to actually remove public transportation.
        • Don’t like your ISP? Too bad, you probably don’t have another choice
        • Look at the PG&E story and how they contaminated drinking water, then just lied about it while people died. You don’t really have a choice about who supplies electricity to your city.

        Yes, you could choose to live off of the grid and walk everywhere and grow your own crops, but that’s hardly a choice. And it doesn’t have to be that way. Shitty people at the top of these companies make ungodly money by screwing everyone else over anyway they can, regardless of the cost to humanity. That is the point.

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    • match@pawb.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      a train ticket cross country costs thousands of dollars more than an equivalent class of airplane tickets so no, no I do not have that control

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      • bleistift2@feddit.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        NY–LA via Amtrak: $291. Greyhound, a bus company: $139

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  • blazera@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Youve got all the control. Without you theyre not emitting anything

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    • Signtist@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      No, I don’t, “the population” does. I have control over myself, 1 teeny tiny sliver of the group that is “the population.” If there’s one thing “the population” is known to put the effort into doing, it’s twiddling their thumbs. It’s nothing more than a huge writhing mass of opinions. To expect it to coordinate effectively enough to make change happen is just as ridiculous as to expect all the molecules in a glass of water to suddenly converge on one side. “The population” doesn’t make change, it buffers against it.

      “Oh, all we have to do is get 8 billion people of different backgrounds, opinions, socioeconomic standards, and every other metric to agree on something. Surely that’s a feasible task!”

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      • blazera@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        that’s how society works man, we agree to do things a certain way. Lead used to be a really popular component in a lot of consumer products that ended up with a lot of awful health effects. And basically, science let people know it’s bad and should be avoided, and society changed to fix it.

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    • match@pawb.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I do not have the control because I have limited means and if they do not offer an ecological option within those means then I have to choose from non-ecological options within those means

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• ChocoboRocket@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Maybe if you’re on shrooms or LSD, yeah “it’s all the same if you use what they make maaaaaaan”

  But only if you ignore the power dynamics behind wealth, and are aware of the concepts of bribery, temptation, and unlimited influence.

  Or the fact that people want greener options but they are intentionally unavailable, sabotaged, prohibitively expensive (but never subsidized), or publicly demonized in media with disinformation and propaganda.

  Between consumers and corporations, only one gets to call all the shots

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  • grue@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    prohibitively expensive (but never subsidized)

    …while the unsustainable options are, massively…

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  • pumpkinseedoil@feddit.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Sustainable energy is heavily subsidised in Europe. Thanks to that we have 80% renewable energy production in Austria (and buy some non-renewable energy from other countries but still, we’re on a good way).

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• Chestnut@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I think you’re being downvoted a bit unfairly because you’re strictly correct

  That said, fossil fuel companies also spend a considerable amount of money and effort keeping us dependent on oil

  The Drilled podcast and Climate Town have both done excellent reporting on this

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  • grue@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I think you’re being downvoted a bit unfairly because you’re strictly correct

    No, he’s not. Deliberately ignoring the larger context is blatantly incorrect.

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    • Chestnut@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I think that’s a valid opinion to have but also the person could have just been a bit glib and not careful with their words

      They’re a commenter on Lemmy, not a politician. I don’t expect them to always have well crafted takes

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• Neato@ttrpg.network ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  There’s always a corpo-fucker in these threads.

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  • blazera@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    if you wanna reduce global emissions, you should at least know where it’s coming from. You hear how most emissions are coming from corporations, mostly oil companies, but that’s not quite it. If you went to their corporate headquarters you wont find the emissions they’re talking about. If you went to their oil drilling operations, you wont find them there either. The pipelines, the oil tankers, still no. Oil companies emissions are coming from your tailpipe. I mean it literally when I say consumer emissions and their emissions are the same.

    Its important to know, think about it for a bit, you’re demanding oil companies to take responsibility for those emissions. Imagine they do what you want for a change, and they stop their emissions. That means no gas available to consumers. And oil companies are the biggest targets, but any corporate emissions work the same way, them taking responsibility for their emissions means halting what they produce. Because corporate emissions and consumer emissions are the same, consumers have to deal with the consequences no matter what, either by stopping buying themselves, or no longer having products available to buy.

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