“Proxy war” take is literally just Russian propaganda meant to deprive Ukraine of agency in eyes of whoever that bullshit is targeted at.
It’s never Ukraine that fights back, it’s ye fiendish Anglo-Saxons, Americans, CIA, NATO mercenaries or whatever, especially with most successful operations like Moskva sinking and “Spiderweb”.
And that is just natural continuation of Russian attitudes since early 90’s, with first Yeltsin blabbing “they will all come crawling back”, while negotiating Russian military presence in Crimea, and then putin lamenting loss of Ukraine and Kazakhstan in early 2000’s. For Russians it’s simply inconceivable that colony would just break away given the chance, it must be someone else pulling the strings.
But this is less of a proxy war than we’re used to in the Middle East with the US fucking with Russian allies or Russia fucking with Western, with neither the US nor Russia ever trying to kill one another. This is just Russia straight up attacking a neighbor trying to annex more land.
Annexing land isnt very proxy war. It’d be more, “hey you guys sell oil for US$ now and forever but we’re leaving”
I wouldn’t call the US attacking random countries in the Middle East proxy wars either, those are just wars, at least on the US’s part
Could call the current war in Iran a proxy war though, in that the US is a proxy for Israel this time. But then who is Iran a proxy for? Russia? I don’t think Russia is strong enough to wage a proxy war in addition to their war war right now.
I don’t think Iran is a proxy for Russia as much as Russia and China have interests in Iran remaining sovereign and trading oil in currencies other than the US$. It is more a proxy war with China than anything, considering they sell a ton of oil for Chinese yuan, but it’s more about long term strategic interests, everyone moving chess pieces to the middle for the “inevitable conflict” that no one really wants to fight.
I think it’s just the natural progression of what has been a very cold war between US and China.
HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 23 hours ago
Ukraine is UN’s proxy against Russia?
Not the wildest take, really.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 23 hours ago
Ukraine is THE main force opposing Russia directly. USA flunked, NATO flunked, everyone proved pathetic except Ukraine.
ivan@piefed.social 22 hours ago
“Proxy war” take is literally just Russian propaganda meant to deprive Ukraine of agency in eyes of whoever that bullshit is targeted at.
It’s never Ukraine that fights back, it’s ye fiendish Anglo-Saxons, Americans, CIA, NATO mercenaries or whatever, especially with most successful operations like Moskva sinking and “Spiderweb”.
And that is just natural continuation of Russian attitudes since early 90’s, with first Yeltsin blabbing “they will all come crawling back”, while negotiating Russian military presence in Crimea, and then putin lamenting loss of Ukraine and Kazakhstan in early 2000’s. For Russians it’s simply inconceivable that colony would just break away given the chance, it must be someone else pulling the strings.
Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 hours ago
I mean they call Ukrainian soldiers “Germans” (немцьі) on the front lines.
One of the founding fathers of modern Ukrainian avant-garde art calls this “chickenshit Nazism”.
Saapas@piefed.zip 20 hours ago
The UN, huh. Lol
terranoid@lemmy.cafe 22 hours ago
I think by definition it’s not a proxy war if you consider Russia to be the main aggressor in the conflict.
However it is clear there are two global sides here, and lots of other countries have financial stakes in it:
en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_military_aid_to_Ukrain…
en.wikipedia.org/…/Support_for_Russia_in_the_Russ…
But this is less of a proxy war than we’re used to in the Middle East with the US fucking with Russian allies or Russia fucking with Western, with neither the US nor Russia ever trying to kill one another. This is just Russia straight up attacking a neighbor trying to annex more land.
Annexing land isnt very proxy war. It’d be more, “hey you guys sell oil for US$ now and forever but we’re leaving”
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 13 hours ago
I wouldn’t call the US attacking random countries in the Middle East proxy wars either, those are just wars, at least on the US’s part
Could call the current war in Iran a proxy war though, in that the US is a proxy for Israel this time. But then who is Iran a proxy for? Russia? I don’t think Russia is strong enough to wage a proxy war in addition to their war war right now.
terranoid@lemmy.cafe 11 hours ago
I don’t think Iran is a proxy for Russia as much as Russia and China have interests in Iran remaining sovereign and trading oil in currencies other than the US$. It is more a proxy war with China than anything, considering they sell a ton of oil for Chinese yuan, but it’s more about long term strategic interests, everyone moving chess pieces to the middle for the “inevitable conflict” that no one really wants to fight.
I think it’s just the natural progression of what has been a very cold war between US and China.
kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 hours ago
Russia is a member of the UN.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 13 hours ago
Permanent member of the security council even lmao
remon@ani.social 19 hours ago
Definitely one of the stupidest takes.
0ops@piefed.zip 15 hours ago
You should lookup “UN members” real quick lmfao