I don’t think this is very related to phantasia… With a book you can stop and think about things (imaginatively or critically). With video your entire attention is captured and it’s quite difficult to step away from the narrative being presented. In my experience audio is somewhere in between, and I’m able to zone out on my own tangent sometimes (but this is annoying, because I miss things)
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Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I have aphantasia.
How does reading and watching it in your mind’s eye change anything from just watching it on a screen?
I prefer audio books because it allows me to critically think better during because I can listen and think at same time, but reading words takes more brain power.
naught101@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
You could pause a movie or show
I can zone out on my own tangents with video or audio and it relates to the video or audio.
I will zone out reading and it will be about completely different things and I’ll realize that I really haven’t gotten anything I just read.
I have to focus on reading, understanding, critically thinking
With video and audio, it’s just understanding and critically thinking. I don’t have to focus on telling my brain the information.
Ilixtze@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
We usually think in linguistic concepts even when reading a book, one of the most difficult things to do with a student when they are learning drawing is teaching them to really see instead of thinking of linguistic traits. I have aphantasia and it is difficult for me to recall visual traits so instead i focus on visual recipes, or construction while drawing. It is difficult for me to recall faces for example but if i reduce a face to geometric shapes and proportions and do a lot of trial and error so i can approximate a face I’ve seen.
So when reading is not that I am seeing things, but i am making a conceptual map, an abstraction. Kinda like how dreams are like stories we tell ourselves to the point they might seem like intangible images. Sometimes I feel my brain relate stuff i read to things i’ve already seen, or builds some conceptual bridge between known concepts to unknown ones.
But reading is also a practice on itself different than hearing. Language has aesthetics, rhythm character. I feel i learn more about the aesthetic beauty of language by reading it on the page than hearing it on an audio book because it forces me to build that bridge between my horizon of understanding and the authors’.
This is especially true for authors that have an entirely different background than me because to understand them i need to read slower and research. Something that audio books doesn’t allow with it’s predisposed presentation.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 1 day ago
If I wanted to get the best experience it would be following along in a book with audio.
I say every word basically with my inner voice while reading, so having someone else do that for me is brain power I do not have to use.
I took a lot of art classes, I can draw with a reference photo.
It is difficult for me to recall faces for example but if i reduce a face to geometric shapes and proportions and do a lot of trial and error so i can approximate a face I’ve seen.
Same I cannot see a person’s face in my mind but I can think of their face in proportions. I would have to do a ton of sketches to get basically sketch a reference photo, then I could work on making it better from there.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world 2 days ago
aphantasia - the inability to voluntarily create mental images in your mind’s eye.
I guess this extends to reading? I wasn’t sure if that would count as “voluntarily” since it just seems to happen for me.
I read to my kids every night and if there is a movie of the book we’re reading, I will finish the book with them before we watch the movie. In this way, the images they have in their minds as we read are theirs. Sometimes interesting things happen in your mind when it needs to create its own images and I think this is a personal part of reading and one reason why reading is not just consumption but also a creative act unto itself.
Once Hollywood has made Jennifer Lawrence the protagonist, that’s all you’ll be able to see ever again.
However none of this would apply in your case so read or watch or listen however works best for you. Personally I find audiobooks a terrible way to read. My mind wanders instead of focusing more on the text. I realize I’ve been thinking about someone else for several minutes, and ultimately don’t retain as much from the book in the end. It’s like “having the tv on in the background” while doing household chores. That’s fine for stuff I don’t really care about, if I just want to relax and divert my mind. But if I really want to enjoy the book and get everything I can from it, I need to read it.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Yes it extends to reading.
I do not have an image in my head of what Harry Potter is supposed to look like after reading the book. As long as the character in the movie didn’t have completely wrong details I wouldn’t think anything of it.
I’m the opposite. I will read a paragraph and then realize that I was thinking about something else and even though I read the paragraph I didn’t absorb any of the knowledge.
I couldn’t imagine reading outloud and thinking about what I need to do for work tomorrow. I have to 100% focus on reading words.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world 1 day ago
So personal question but do you dream with images?
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I don’t normally dream
But when I do they are very vivid like it feels real
I cannot determine if I am actually seeing visuals in them because after I wake up I cannot recall the images, but I feel like I can remember some details I saw visually rather than just making up the details.
skisnow@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
I think it must be a spectrum or something because I’m fully capable of mentally picturing things in detail if I want to, but it’s a thing I have to actually /do/. It doesn’t just happen automatically when I’m reading, I have to make a deliberate decision to picture the scene.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Do you get images popping into your head at random times ever?
From my understanding imagers have a lot of that going on from PTSD to counting sheep because they need other images to stop.
I’m fully capable of mentally picturing things in detail if I want to
I would say this is true for me with aphantasia. My sister is about to turn 40 and I just convinced her the other day that she has aphantasia. She’s an avid reader and would swear that she could picture things in her mind while reading
My mental “picture” isn’t an image but a mental collection of details that I know exists because I built it in my mind.
I know phantasia is a spectrum, aphantasia to hyperphantasia, in detail. But I don’t know much about how often imagers use their images, always assumed the better you are at, more hyperphantasic, the more you used it.
MrOtingocni@lemmy.world 1 day ago
That’s wild, I am the complete opposite.
When I read my mind takes what I am reading and provides a rich imaginatory backdrop replete with emotional undertones that unfolds and plays out as the words become concepts and the concepts link together in context to the plot/scenario/etc.
Except with math heavy subjects, I can usually get the gist of any topic by reading about it.
Conversely, I can barely follow audio instructions or explanations at all. Having something explained by a friend is fine, lots of back and forth until it clicks. Casual listening, like a fiction book, is fine.
Anything else and I get a little lost halfway through, usually trying to remember the first thing that was said.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
You do sound like the opposite. Do you have hyperphantasia?
I’d definitely take just audio over reading any day.
Reading just requires me to play the audio in my inner voice. If someone else read and said it then it’s less brain power for me.
MrOtingocni@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
Hyperphantasia. I had to look that up. While it is pretty descriptive of my inner world, I don’t think I would ever self-identify as that. Feels… a little much.
I find the whole concept of cognitive styles fascinating and I think there is a trade off. While the advent of reading is certainly a great thing, I think for many it has shrunk a part of the brain that processes speech. Prior to books, if you needed to know something you had better listen close, comprehend it quickly, and be damned sure you remembered it because there may not be a second chance.
Strider@lemmy.world 2 days ago
There’s really no difference in the medium or different methods of transmission. It’s possible to imagine the same.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I’d say that my imagination isn’t effected. It just doesn’t have mind’s eye images to go along with them.
Best way I can describe it is that it’s like a computer without a screen. The computer knows what the image looks like and it could put it up on a screen if one was attached but it doesn’t have the screen to do so.
I get the “sense” of an image. Like it’s almost there and I could tell you all the details of the image I am trying to imagine.
If you have any questions feel free to ask anything, I enjoy discussing it
Strider@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Nice, thanks!
When I imagine things it ranges from being more or less able to see what I am imagining and up to being so deep in thought that I lose connection to my external senses, seeing hearing and everything. Especially when relating to situations or remembering.
So from possibly you speaking about this with others more in depth was there a key thing where you said ‘wow yeah that’s different for me’ or is it more of a ‘similar, but different everywhere’ thing?
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Another example from my girlfriend that is an imager.
She pictures a blank memo pad when she tries to fall asleep and focuses on keeping it blank.
I assume this is her version of counting sheep. Trying to keep images from popping into your mind to distract you from falling asleep.
For me I put myself in a scenario and imagine it. Like I walk up to the city of Qarth from Game of Thrones and they won’t open up the gates. I usually give myself superpower. I just “run” with it until I fall asleep. But imagining my body moving is one of the keys, I enjoy lightsaber battles.
I am not watching it, I am experiencing it. It’s not the same as watching it in 1st or 3rd person. It is like experiencing it in 2nd person if your brain was the narrator.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I find other people with aphantasia to be very similar to me.
Imager seem to be very different from one another probably depending on how good image generation is.
One example is I don’t go into a movie with visual expectations. I’ve read Harry Potter, I knew he was a small kid with messy black hair and taped glasses. But when I saw the movie I didn’t care if Dainel Radcliffe fit the role because I had no image of Harry Potter in my mind. Just the details.
Pupschism@lemmy.world 1 day ago
My interpretation is that the shadow is not representative of the kids visual imagination, the visuals are an analogy for the depth and richness of their thinking, including perhaps a bit of visual imagination but also everything else.
Also lol this is an edit the boy is watching 1 man 1 jar, don’t look it up if you’ve gone this long blissfully unaware
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I take in information. If I take it in visually or by reading it, it’s basically the same. I’ll remember what I can as facts and details.
Lol I will stay blissfully unaware. Thanks for the heads up!
driftwood@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I do too, and I didn’t know it was different for others until I was an adult. When I was young they used to guilt trip me for wasting my intelligence because I hated books.
I grew up inspired by creative world building shown in movies like LOTR and in games. I read more than most people, but it’s never books.
I hate how so many people fail to consider others might not have the same perspective or needs.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Same I didn’t know until I was an adult. My math scores as a child were high but I hated reading and I wasn’t the best at it so I was put in special reading classes.
Do you have the consciously read every word? I don’t understand how people can just look at a paragraph and just soak up the knowledge without going through all the individual words.
Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
I get as much enjoyment from technical books that I read for career and personal reasons as I do fiction, so I usually read non fiction as it at least has a purpose for me. I wonder how much is related to my not being able to visualize anything.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Reading both is very similar for me but non-fiction does give more imagination material.
Like if I read Star Wars I would get a lot more ideas on space and jedi. If I read about the Kreb Cycle I would just know the information on the Kreb Cycle.
Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
I think I might have an imagination fault in addition to ‘can’t see things in my mind’ (which I thought was completely made up that people could just picture things in their head, it still freaks me out even though I’ve accepted it). I can imagine things of course but only in like a practical reality sense. Like my mind doesn’t have a bridge to ‘maybe’ kinds of theory unless I can make it make sense along the way. That’s not to say I don’t imagine things that make sense in my head that would be complete disasters, because I do, regularly, and peer review has saved me countless times. I don’t know how to explain but the more I hear about how other people’s brains work it makes me think mine is broken and constrained significantly for some reason.
RichardDegenne@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
I guess it’s a matter of preference, because in my mind there’s no way listening takes less brainpower than reading.
basxto@discuss.tchncs.de 2 days ago
That’s probably very different from person to person, since its different how well they can parse heard words and seen words. For me hearing is way faster, but I’m also more likely to confuse sounds than characters.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I cannot read unless I know what each word is. I can skim something and look for keywords and get a gist but to really understand something I am processing at least parts of every word in my inner voice.
basxto@discuss.tchncs.de 2 days ago
I can’t skim. I also can’t read a text out loud and answer questions to it, I might remember a word here and there, but I have to read so fast that I’m pretty much occupied with transforming words into sounds. I guess I’m lucky that pronunciation of German words never depends on the following word
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I’d equate it to baking a loaf of bread from a recipe.
If I had the recipe read to me while I was make it I could focus 100% of my attention on making the bread.
If I had to watch a video I would have to watch, pause, then complete the step. If I was reading the recipe I would have to read a step and then do it. My attention would become broken in ways.
If I knew how to make the loaf I could listen to an audiobook while making it. There’s no way I could read a book while making it.