Don’t you think the racism of one of them has a bit more of a consequence than of the other?
Comment on .ml has got to be the only place on earth where I'd get downvoted for a comment like this
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social 2 days ago
The only difference between a tankie and a fascist is the name they give themselves.
plyth@feddit.org 2 days ago
Lehmuusa@nord.pub 2 days ago
I completely agree.
And now, when writing this… Argh. Uyghurs. You absolutely cannot compare it to what Nazis did, but if you compare it to what other fascist countries died then yes, that’s quite some consequence.
I still would not write an equal sign between fascists and tankies, though.
In the end, tankie is a type of a socialist, and one becomes socialist through a will to do good. Being a tankie is some EXTREMELY fucking ill-advised way to do good, because the result is indeed very very bad. But you don’t really become a fascist in order to do good. You become a fascist because you think you are worth more than others.
I think being a tankie is about the goal being more important than the means – all the way to an extent where the means completely obliterate the goal. And being a fascist is about deciding that being limitlessly selfish is okay. One is at least trying to have a good goal. The other one is just… “Everything for ME and MY TRIBE, all others should DIE!” But in the end, what’s being done to Uyghurs is just horror. Being thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments is already on a very high level of evil to have to experience.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 2 days ago
And now, when writing this… Argh. Uyghurs. You absolutely cannot compare it to what Nazis did, but if you compare it to what other fascist countries died then yes, that’s quite some consequence.
You could also compare it to things “democratic” countries have done. America for one has had decades of segregation based on ethnicity and has had concentration camps for ethnic minorities, not to mention a genocide against indigenous peoples.
If we are using that to tell how much like Nazis a nation is plenty of democratic countries are a lot closer to Nazi Germany than China.
In the end, tankie is a type of a socialist, and one becomes socialist through a will to do good. Being a tankie is some EXTREMELY fucking ill-advised way to do good, because the result is indeed very very bad.
I’m not claiming that China has never done anything that I don’t agree with, however if we are measuring their results, it’s hard to conclude that it’s ill advised. In the last 40 years China has lifted nearly a billion people out of extreme poverty and has done so with out endless cycles of wars.
Meanwhile democratic nations in the West have seen more of their citizens slide into to poverty while killing millions of people in forever wars.
But in the end, what’s being done to Uyghurs is just horror. Being thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments is already on a very high level of evil to have to experience.
Again, I don’t agree with a lot of the CCP policies. That being said, I do think there are some exaggerations when it comes to the Uyghur people, though based on their own information I would say there is a pattern of ethnic prejudice
That being said, even if we use the most inflammatory information from western media and utilize the high estimate of 1.8 million ethnic minorities being put into reeducation camps. That’s less than 1/6th of the Uyghur population in China. Less than the 2 million people currently incarcerated in the US, of those whom nearly 40% are from an ethnic minority who only make up around 10% of the total population.
This is not my attempt of a whataboutism, just trying to illiustrate that unjustifiable national policy is not unique to socialist or democratic capitalist governments.
Lehmuusa@nord.pub 2 days ago
You could also compare it to things “democratic” countries have done. America for one has had decades of segregation based on ethnicity and has had concentration camps for ethnic minorities, not to mention a genocide against indigenous peoples.
Yes, you can. Generally, any country where an ideology goes over individuals’ well-being tends to do this shit. China does, USA does as well. Not terribly surprising.
1/6 on camps is a LOT. It does fulfill the definition of genocide.
What makes you think that USA is relevant here? I am not from USA. USA is not a part of China, nor the other way around.
This is not my attempt of a whataboutism, just trying to illiustrate that unjustifiable national policy is not unique to socialist or democratic capitalist governments.
Show me a democratic country where this happens. You’re giving me China and USA. And there’s also the Russia. But is there actually a democratic country where people are handled they way countries such as USA and China do?
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
The vast majority of muslim nations on earth got together to send delegates to investigate in person and they declared the accusations to be baseless.
Lehmuusa@nord.pub 2 days ago
My experiences with Uyghurs differ from yours. I was backpacking in Kazakstan and China and the repression was easy to notice with bare eyes. The Uyghurs wouldn’t be that scared of a 7-year-old Han-girl if there was no repression.
How was your visit to East Türkestan?
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
i recommend this video by Eric Hovagim to learn more about the Uyghur topic (but i guess you’ll probably skip it based on its title?)
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I skip all youtube referrals, who has time for that? Reading is much faster, more data, more better.
Videos are how you teach children
Lehmuusa@nord.pub 2 days ago
I did watch the first three minutes. Everything he shows is true, everything he explains as interpretation is just full of shit.
“Why?"
Well, for the same reason Soviet Union was doing the same to its colonies. Or why France was doing the same to its.Blargh, the guy’s eaten the hook with bait and floater.
calmblue75@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
That was quite informative, thanks for sharing!
RiverRock@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments
Man it’s so cool that red scare propaganda in the current age has a kind of SCP collaborative fiction vibe to it, where you can just Say Shit and riff on it to adjust reality to your bizzare specifications
greenbit@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
It’s hard to see tankies ever have that good goal. They really really defend the oppression they achieve
Lehmuusa@nord.pub 1 day ago
I believe at the point they have already become tankies, no good goal exists anymore. They only seem to work to defend what they have already achieved. And that is oppression.
I’m not sure socialism or communism can ever be made to work, but at least Marx and Lenin made it much more difficult to ever get there by demandinfmg we do the opposite of the goals of communism in order to get communism. People who are okay with cleansings and repression will cleanse and repress.
You don’t really go through the chore of reading Capital without really wanting to change the society for better. And because Marx, the death of communism, preferred violence and is convincing with his way of argumentation (at least if you’re a bit stupid), those who read the book until the end, end up forfeiting all good goals and will go for repression.
Tankies are people who used to want good things and fairness. And then they converted from that into tankies.
A strong leader will always lead you into a Russia. Into a quagmire.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
This would assume the tankie-fascist isn’t also racist
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
“Let us assume that my political opponent is a racist because it makes my job easier” lol fuck off clown
plyth@feddit.org 2 days ago
Why? The way I phrased it, racism was included for both sides.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I guess I missed that. My mistake.
silentjohn@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
Myth: Communism and Fascism are the Same
Fascism upholds capitalist hierarchies (race, class, gender); communism seeks to abolish them
Fascism arises from capitalist decay to protect ruling-class interests, while communism opposes capitalism.
Historical examples (Franco, Hitler) show fascists collaborating with capitalists, not communists, who were among the first to be jailed/killed.
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
You forgot to include some communist historical examples.
Hint: They tend to do exactly the same thing.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
Communists and fascists are diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive. Communists fight for the working classes, to collectivize all production and distribution to suit the needs of all. Fascists apply the methods of colonialism domestically in order to entrench capitalists and kill off labor organizers. Equating the two originated as a form of Holocaust trivialization called Double Genocide Theory.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Communist ≠ tankie
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
“Tankie” is a pejorative for those who support existing socialist states, it’s essentially a pejorative for communists.
hitwright@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Tankie is a term for anti US campist, that chooses to ignore crimes againt humanity by other Imperialistic nations. (China, Russia)
Historically used against socialists, but the term gained another meaning
mattyroses@lemmy.today 2 days ago
It’s just coincidence that it’s used against all communists then?
T00l_shed@lemmy.world 2 days ago
all communists? That’s a very big sample size
RiverRock@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
That must be why capitalists and the CIA love one, but hate and fear the other, right? Because they’re the same?
Never cracked a book-ass comment
sveltecider@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Horseshoe theory on lemmy. This website really isn’t much different than Reddit lol, makes sense cause it was mostly Reddit refugees to being with.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 day ago
or a conservative and left-wing tankie, mirrors images.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
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ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
You’ll scare the racist imperialists with that kind of density. One image of Country Joe waggling his fingers is enough as it is!
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
They should be scared, the american century of humiliation is nigh
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
You best start believing in the Epstein Empire’s century of humiliation, Miss Turner
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Grapho@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
Inshallah it’s already here
CybranM@feddit.nu 2 days ago
Never thought I’d upvote a .ml comment but here we are. Extremely self inflicted century of humiliation as well