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kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

For context, he was speaking about living in expensive metropolitan cities, suggesting people move into less expensive places within the US, like the interior states. Ben says enough stupid shit to mock without isolating a quote from context to make it seem like he said/meant something else entirely.

Hell, there’s plenty to push back on with this quote and argument even understanding what he actually meant. “Just move somewhere cheaper”. Like that’s a much easier thing to say than do.

If you’re unable to afford living where you are, then you’re probably going to struggle to afford the costs of moving. Then there’s the logistics of finding work and housing wherever you move to from another state. If you don’t have money to coast on for temporary housing, gas and food, you either need a company willing to hire you and provide you assistance to move or a personal connection in the area that’ll let you crash on their couch.
Your field of work may just not exist in Guthrie, Oklahoma, or wherever. Leaving metro areas may mean changing careers. And those careers may not pay anywhere near as much either. Your costs may go down, but your wages might go with it.
Leaving your home city means leaving all of your support structures. Your parents, siblings, friends, peers, etc. Some people may really depend on those. Or maybe sometime depends on you specifically. Maybe your mom isn’t healthy? Maybe you have a sister dealing with addiction? Maybe they need your presence to ensure their care.
There are political, legal, and health considerations in changing states. Do you have an active sex life and don’t want to be afraid that you’ll die from an unaborted ectopic pregnancy? Have a trans child? Are you not white? Then you may be more limited in suitable places to live outside of metropolitan city.
This sidesteps the actual problem here, the why of it all. Why they can’t afford to live in the city they grew up in. Why is pay so bad? Why is housing so expensive? Why are groceries so expensive? But no, no. We can’t question or address those things. That’s just business baby. Free market capitalism at work. Let it ride, unregulated. Just move your ass out of the way to Hastings, Nebraska or some shit.

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CH3DD4R_G0BL1N@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Your comment is exactly why they say this type of thing and why it always works for them: they spit out a curt catchphrase/gotcha/“just asking questions” and to even begin to address the absurdity of it you need a bulleted list of ask the ways it’s wrong. By the, even the non-red pilled person has moved on and lost interest before reading a rebuttal, but they remember the original talking point. It’s worked far too well for far too long.

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- VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  It’s an aggressive mix of the gish gallop and motte and bailey fallacies.
  
  There’s nothing you can do with the average person not being invested enough in politics to inquire further, and the lack of controls on public speakers. Except stoop to their level I suppose.
  
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- cybernihongo@reddthat.com ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  “Never Play Defense,” right?
  
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captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
So I will concede that he doesn’t give half a shit about 4, and thinks that people who have less rights in interior states shouldn’t have those rights anywhere. Furthermore I think he wants to separate the victims of his beliefs from ordinary working class people. Easier to hate a caricature of someone when they aren’t your neighbor.

But I’ll add 2 more:

The cost of living is going up in many previously cheap places now too. Some it’s not, my first apartment is apparently cheaper now than when I lived there, but it’s not a place many people are going to want to live. The nearest cities which are historically budget friendly cities on the other hand are no longer budget friendly. And no the places that are cheap aren’t scenic bumfuck nowhere, it’s small towns that aren’t pretty and don’t have much to do, even outdoors stuff.

Cheaper places are increasingly non functional in basic governance and public services. Public transit? Yeah good fucking luck even in the cities people think should be fine. When you get to really small bumfuck nowhere you better hope you don’t need medicine fast, Benny boy helped ensure that the hospitals in those places shut down by fighting against Medicare and Medicaid. The water? Contaminated. What are you getting for your taxes? A bad school, a censored library, asshole cops who are bored when you’re coming home from the city, and not much else.

Alternatively high cost of living areas are starting to engage in urbanist policies which will reduce the cost of living. Sure you won’t have a big yard in the city for cheap, but a reasonable sized apartment at a decent price or a reasonable priced house in the suburbs are possible.
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- kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Yeah there is also the consideration that many that live in metro areas get by without a car, and are less likely to own a car or even have a driver’s license. Without reliable or even existent public transport in their new home, where a car is a basic necessity, that is another massive financial hurdle and even a skill/paperwork hurdle to make living there viable.
  
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  - ThunderQueen@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Im a city girlie and havent had a license in 5 years. Just havent really needed it. Whenever im going out of the city im either going with friends to the woods, so we carpool, or flying to another city, so i just use their pubtrans/rideshare
    
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WanderingThoughts@europe.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Also business removing remote work so people who went to live in cheaper places move back or at least closer to the city.

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- rozodru@piefed.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  bu-but the corporate landlords need money! won’t someone please think of those corporate blood sucking leaches!
  
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michaelmrose@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
It doesn’t scale. Where the problematic economic demographic is 50%+ percent of the pop and 70% live in cities no substantial portion effected could go live in all the Guthries in the nation. People are concentrated for reasons as old as civilization.

It often wouldn’t help. Outside of shelter and taxes most goods don’t vary much or all by market and wages do.

One could find yourself spending an overlarge portion of your money on rent in an urban market move for cheaper rent and find the difference in wages makes up the difference in rent and now you need to afford everything else on less total wages.

Cheaper markets have worse services and safety nets. Those who already rely on good medial benefits in urban centers in blue states would find little savings in moving into the boondocks in their own states and would lose more in health care alone than they gain in rent moving to bumfuck
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thetentacle@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
The right answer is to deconstruct the argument logically and educate, of course. But I think it has to be added that the hypocrisy is intentional and is not stupidity and to understand the argument behind the facade you have to understand us politics.

Which is all about manipulating the voter turnout. Imigrants will, once naturalized, vote against republicans, so they are oppressed. Same with women, high education, and so on. These are all just traits that let you select people who’d vote against you.

For example abortion, women who would consider aborition will statistically vote agianst republicans, so republicans rally around that and demonize abortion to make the women move away or stay away. Or as you mentioned transgender people, yes they can’t move to republican states, that’s the point.

It’s always about supressing the people who statistically vote against you. In this case poor people vote against you, so you argue that poor people should leave the state or the country to dillute or strategically shift the voting opposition.

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- athatet@lemmy.zip ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  The right answer is to laugh in their faces and make fun of them. People like Ben are not arguing in good faith. They do not care about logic and reason.
  
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FireRetardant@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Counter to your point, i did leave my home city that was too expensive for me to live in. I did nearly become homeless before landing a job but once i landed a job i was able to afford a small house in a few years, a nearly impossible goal for me in my home town.

I did have the benefit of my work skills are fairly universal and I could find some kind of employment nearly anywhere. If its an attainable goal to move, even if risky id say more often than not its worthwhile. It would be wise to do extensive research into average living costs and employment opportunities before moving.

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- kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I certainly wasn’t saying that it isn’t a good option for some/most. It definitely can be. I’m saying that “just move” misses a lot of nuance, hurdles, pitfalls, and priorities. Like you said, you nearly ended up homeless. Even though you made it in the end, you were lucky you didn’t get stuck in that situation too.
  
  And that advice ignores the runaway problems that causes the affordability crisis in the first place, the same problems that are going to happen in places that are currently more affordable too. It is a short term solution for yourself to move. But when those problems catch up to you or your kids later, where are they going to go then? How long can the goal post keep moving before we stop it?
  
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  - FireRetardant@lemmy.world ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    That could be part of your research process, by moving to city that is more walkable, pro-transit etc. Which i do know is easier said that done and often is more expensive.
    
    We do need collective action to make it better but the affordability crisis is incredibly complex and must be tackled from several factors ranging from car dependancy, city zoning, rent control policies, and several other factors. Most of what i mentioned is on the type and supply side, we also need to consider wage growth and job positions available. It becomes a complex mess with no 1 factor to blame.
    
    One of the most effective things you can do is vote locally for politicians that want beneficial change like density and transit, and not vote for the ones that do things like “even though this road is zoned for multi units and mid rises, im gonna fight every development that isn’t a SFH because it ruins the “character” of the neighborhood.”
    
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Fedizen@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Alternative explanation: the “here” at the end is a misspeak and he’s advocating killing poor and homeless people.

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athatet@lemmy.zip ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
This is a huge wall of text when all you need to say is that Ben Shapiro is a right wing grifter and nothing he says should be taken seriously.

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- kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  It’s never for Ben himself. He’s either a complete drifter that knows better or high on his own supply and has deluded himself about these things. Or both. Who it is for is the people that may see this as a “common sense” nugget of wisdom that may never examine it critically or those who are fed up with these over simplified “solutions” to their problems and just need to see that others aren’t taking this reversal of blame from systems and authority onto the individuals stuck under them without push back.
  
  It doesn’t feel wrong to come to the conclusion that “if things are too hard to get by here and they are easier over there, then you should go over there.” That sounds entirely reasonable, because if the problem were that simple, it would be. But the problem just isn’t that simple and pretending it is is the grift. That’s why folksy wisdom like this is so rarely related to reality. Life is layered and messy and complicated and FUCKING EXPENSIVE. No solution in the real world is simple, and even less so when you are broke.
  
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