Okay. I'm going to fuck with your head. Don't click this unless you're sure.
The color red is not even the same for you between each eye. Go look.
Comment on "Trippy" Reality
Kolanaki@pawb.social 20 hours agoThe data of reality is consistent. How that data is interpreted by the brain may not be. Like the color red might not look the same to you as it does to me. We’ll never know since it’s impossible to describe a color and we can’t see the world with the other’s brain.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
5too@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Given that it’s the same brain interpreting information from two different eyeballs, I’d suspect this is down to minute differences either between them (such as adjusting for darkness while testing as Kratzkopf suggested), or in their relative position.
It’s interesting, but I don’t think it really gets at the question of differing perceptions between people.
Bysmuth@lemmy.zip 12 hours ago
Looks the same to me
Wutchilli@feddit.org 11 hours ago
Looks the same to me, do you have some kind of source or paper to back up your claim?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
Nah, just folk who look closely are typically able to notice they perceive shades of colors slightly differently. Everyone I’ve tested it with has been able to do it.
Kratzkopf@discuss.tchncs.de 8 hours ago
How do you test this though? The eye is highly adaptive. If you close one eye, look at something red, then close the other one, your formerly closed eye will already have adapted to the darkness of your eye lid. Depending on how long you do the looking, I can imagine this leading to quite a difference in color perception already.
i_love_FFT@jlai.lu 13 hours ago
They did researchers with fMRI that showed that the same colors activated brains of viewers the same way, giving as much weight as possible to the idea that people perceive colors the same way.
shneancy@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
that’s not really a good study for the issue in question since getting a control group of people who never formed associations between colours and ideas would be rather difficult
even a day old baby would begin forming their first associations - yellow is warm because the sun is warm
has the study included totally colour blind people? (like literally blind to colour, full monochromacy) and if so how were their results interpreted?
i_love_FFT@jlai.lu 4 hours ago
If they’re fully color blind, how could they be shown colors? That would be a bad control group.
Instead, when doing fMRI stuff, they usually create a “baseline” by showing their subjects random stuff to see how the brain fires up. For example, they could show greyscale images of grass, sun, blood, etc., then see how it differs from seeing contextless colors (ie: a uniform green screen)
shneancy@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
if you show people colours you can be sure they already have associations with them - sun is yellow, sun is warm, yellow is warm - of course everyone will fire up the “this is warm” parts of their brain, but will it be the same thing i call yellow?
there are bound to be associations that transcend cultures and therefore fire up the same brain parts
monochromatic colour blind people will see the wavelength of yellow, but their eyes don’t have the receptors to distinguish it from light grey. objectively they still “see” the yellow, their eye-brain system just doesn’t interpret it in the way other people do
probably, this is what i know but it might not be true. if there is no way to get a control group of people who never learnt to associate colours with other things (pretty much everyone, aside from monochromatic colour blindess, and actual blindness since birth) then there is no way to test if we all indeed see the same yellow
mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de 18 hours ago
Yes I agree, sorry if that wasn’t clear
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Given that color theory works the same for anyone that isn’t some variety of colorblind, I’d argue we probably see colors the same way or very very close to the same.
candyman337@piefed.ca 1 hour ago
Everyone sees colors slightly differently, this is perfectly illustrated by the old blue black/white gold dress. Depending on how your brain has learned to perceive color determines what colors you see.
degen@midwest.social 3 hours ago
Kinda true but kinda not. Language alone can affect our perception. Some don’t have a word for green or blue, and orange is indistinguishable from light brown given context.
Even when we are almost definitely seeing the same things, there’s a lot that can differ.
shneancy@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
colour theory works the same to everyone because it works entirely with how colours relate to each other
if you saw colours rotated on a colour wheel 180° - so that your green is my purple - we wouldn’t know
the only difference would be in the hue (difference between green and purple), which isn’t all that important. there are plenty of videos on youtube with artists drawing using random hues but with correct values (difference between black and white) and once they switch their work to colour it all just looks, good, a bit abstract for sure but still good
besides, colour theory picks colours that go together well based on their relative position on the colour wheel. teal works well with orange because they’re complimentary, opposites on the spectrum. neutral colours are neutral because they’re desaturated regardless of hue, neon colours are very saturated regardless of hue
maybe in objective reality we all like the same exact hue of colour, but in our brains we all call it a different word, we’ll never know
erev@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
the logic might be the same, the perception may not
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
The logic is based on perception, though. Colors either clash or go together because of how we percieve them and which colors go with which is pretty consistent between cultures and time periods.
Tiresia@slrpnk.net 1 hour ago
But perception is for a large part embedded in memory, which differs individually. For me steel foundries smell amazing because I used to play on the beach near a steel foundry, to the point I need to put effort into understanding that it’s actually kind of acrid. So am I still “having the same perception” as someone who doesn’t have the lived experience?
This can happen at a society-wide level too. Liminal beige and seafoam green were not intended to create a feeling of disquiet, but of calm neutrality. Modern audiences perceive them as disquieting because they have been systematically used in our society to impose a sense of calm on un-calm situations, such as operating rooms or hallways in sketchy buildings.
I honestly don’t know how much of the commonality of associations across cultures comes from instinct and how much comes from the fact that all children learn to live on the same planet with the same physical laws. I would bet that for 99.9% of children, their first experience with a strong sulphur smell is going to be from rotten eggs (or similar rotten goods) that others act disgusted by. So the fact that sulphur smells disgusting to the vast majority of adults is not evidence for instinct over memory. The same goes for green plants, red blood, blue skies, etc.
BussyCat@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
But not everyone agrees on which colors go together and which clash
quarkquasar@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
Perception is pretty much always different, but that doesn’t mean the underlying thing being experienced is itself different.
If you cut a pickle in half, and give each half to a different person, and one liked it and one didn’t, you wouldn’t say the pickle tasted different, just that both people perceived the taste differently.
tatterdemalion@programming.dev 10 hours ago
We literally have proof that people don’t see colors the same way: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress
Lemming6969@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
That was horseshit with multiple different pictures being used with different levels, confusing people to death about what others had reported seeing. It’s easy to white balance the blue back to white which with the yellow orange lighting reflections on the black, saturated up the yellow lighting to look more gold. Nobody with normal vision both looking at the same original picture claims the blue part is white.