Comment on We Spoke To Game Devs And All Of Them Hate DLSS 5: 'What The F***, Nvidia?'
BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip 7 hours ago
It’s astonishing to me that PC gamers are suddenly so focused on the “creative intent” of game visuals.
We’re talking about the crowd who shits on console players because they (usually) cannot install mods for their games. Gamers have been destroying the creative intent of the visuals in games for years with shader mods, changes to models and animations, and adding totally new, completely out of place things.
The DLSS5 examples look like shit, but let’s stop pretending we give a shit about the devs “creative intent” when talking about it.
Most people will install mods after playing the game as intended to get more life out of it and if a game is modable, it’s often because the devs included support for that.
Many of those devs got their starts in the modding scene and understand remix culture. What Nvidia is doing is not that. What Nvidia is doing is tantamount to including Autotune in every music player.
I don’t think the second part of your first statement is correct. There are plenty of games that have modding support and that’s great, but there’s also plenty of types of mods that exist despite a lack of support.
Reshade works with most games, even some with anticheats, for example. To piggyback off your analogy, that’s like using an equalizer to accentuate the bass because that’s what you like the most in music.
Regardless, throwing an Ai filter on top of your game seems like something a modder would come up with (and has), but not in any serious capacity.
Most people will install mods after playing the game as intended to get more life out of it and if a game is modable, it’s often because the devs included support for that.
An equalizer is a preferred option because everyone doesn’t have the same audio setup. Different speakers and different room setups will effect the audio. An equalizer is equivalent to the calibration settings in your display setting.
Weird, pedantic emphasis alert.
People have different tastes, and an equalizer is supplemental to both their tastes and individual audio setups. So would visually modifying a game to meet your own taste. Some people just like extra vibrance.
So let’s have that philosophical discussion again like when we had with elden ring mods and artistic/designer intent.
So the biggest philosophical difference to me is that mods are done with a human artistic intent behind it and in the end it’s up to the individual gamer to seek out and decide if that’s something they want to include in their game. It’s the fact that some guy, one individual decided that yup, I’m going to add big old tit’s to Grace and throw her into thong and pasties while revisiting her mother’s death. At least that gal understood what the intent of the scene/game was but made that conscious decision of “nah, let me change it to what I personally would like to see because I’m just a thirsty bastard.”. And even with these types of mods, yes there is a level of respect and gratitude of the original developers inherit in modding.
It’s something unique based on this one person’s interpretation of the game that they’re sharing with other gamers. On the other end of the spectrum, we as individual games can play the game and then make the decision of if we want to incorporate that transformative artists decision or not and we can decide to completely respect the designers original intent or reject/alter it.
DLSS 5 there is no artistic intent behind it just corporation’s algorithm that’s not agreeing, understanding the tone behind things, saying and whole sale adjusting everything according to a model that normalizes everything to some average model. Plus while you can say that developers can have a say with tools to maximize or minimize the effects, which another article I posted seems to point out that those tools of control may be over blown, there’s been no inkling that the gamer themselves can decide if they want to use it or not. And let’s not be coy with some bullshit about “Well you can turn DLSS off”, no you really can’t because this shit has been used as a crutch for game development to get to a respectable frame rate for reasons so now both developers and gamers are forced to bring in a corporations non-artistic vision into their games.
To me that human artistic factor is one part of the key and the decision to say fuck it I want the game to look like a bad only fans filter and the ultimate choice of the human gamer themselves to decide to use it or not is the other part of it and why to me DLSS 5 is bullshit slop.
Replacing every NPC with a big boobies naked women is an artistic intent.
Human artistic intent and human choice to have every NPC with big boobies naked women and giant, and I mean giant, dongs naked men.
That’s the key.
So if I want to implement an AI tool that would automatically makes every game look like shit, this is also my human artistic intent.
This seems completely irrelevant to my point. The problem isn’t that it’s against the developer’s artistic intentions, it’s that it looks like shit.
Who cares what the artist intended?
Irrelevant to you point? Damn, so you don’t even understand your own argument then.
Your first line is literally this:
It’s astonishing to me that PC gamers are suddenly so focused on the “creative intent” of game visuals
and then you’re the one who starts equating mods and how they’ve been altering “creative intent” and implying DLSS 5’s generative AI is no different.
The whole argument about this tech is ALL about creative intent when DLSS is not understanding the game and forcing an algorithmic take on the creative intent not just about how bad it looks.
Fuck man, get your shit in order with a coherent stance and argument.
Bro opening up your sandwich to put mayo on is a vastly different experience than you opening up my sandwich to put whatever condiment you choose on my sandwich.
To be fair, if DLSS5 is optional (I hope so), they are asking you if you want the condiment.
The condiment is a shitty mayo, and they did take initative (which an average person will mindlessly accept), but they did ask.
Right now there no indication that DLSS 5 will give gamers the option to turn the Mutant Only Fans filter off and considering that DLSS really isn’t optional in today’s games to get a decent frame rate, it sure seems like their going to force that shit infused “aioli” into you.
I’ve been using AMD, so I didn’t know if you can pick DLSS version on something. But then again, I never paid attention to whether I could pick between FSR versions, so AMD could force whatever they want too I guess.
Load-bearing if there, but yeah that’s a good point, thank you.
wait, that’s not artisanal fragrant brown mayo?
Based take and true. But there’s different «rules» for low stakes modding and an organisation like nvdidia pushing for default slopification of games
I was going to argue that’s not the case, but then I looked at the most popular mods for Darkest Dungeon and it’s more than 50% anime girls with big tits. There are definitely some good mods in general that maintain creative intent, both aesthetic and game design wise, but it sometimes feels like searching for a needle in a haystack.
This type of tools should be added on a per-game basis.
Imagine AI hallucinating additional enemies on your screen when you are playing something like League of Legends.
As for games like skyrim - they might as well turn into wish-fulfilling AI-powered “go on adventure in fantasy land” machines and nobody would notice the difference.
Okay, this is still possible. Just don’t turn it on.
Completely agree, it feels like taking crazy pills seeing the oddly misdirected anger.
Even then, I don’t understand the anger when nvidia isn’t forcing any game devs to use the tech, so isn’t it necessarily part of the creative intent if they decide to implement it as an option? At the very least they’re the ones that provide it or not.
It makes me feel like it’s an intentional campaign to stoke anger at something seriously inconsequential, but that seems crazy too.
Preach.
It is the same argument they used to gatekeep souls games whenever someone suggested to add an easy mode for those who want to play the game but lack the skill to do so.
The intent of the developer is a lot less important than the experience of the player.
No, it’s like ordering a steak at a restaurant and then somebody from the kitchen supply company coming it once it hits your table and sprinkling a bunch of cinnamon you didn’t ask for all over it.
More like if the option to have cinnamon is on the menu and everyone is pissed it exists for some reason.
Because the cost of having that option has somehow both made the steak more expensive and the equipment to cook it more scarce.
samc@feddit.uk 7 hours ago
Maybe gamers aren’t a monolith and the ones adding waifus to Skyrim aren’t the same as the ones criticising DLSS5?
BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip 6 hours ago
Hmm. Nah that couldn’t be it.