At least for the pockets thing it's a difference between what women think they want and what they actually want. When most women say they want pants with pockets, what they mean is pants that look the same as the ones they already have, but also with pockets. That's impossible to make so, so women are forced to choose between tight pants that highlight their figure and pockets and they choose the former. As for bras, after a quick google my less than educated guess is that because bigger bras have rapidly increased in demand in the past two decades (and even then many wear bras that are too small), at the turn of the century business execs were right to consider bigger bras to be a marginal market with no point in worrying too much about it. Now, however, they're just out of touch. If I'm right hopefully this will correct itself once someone wakes up to the business opportunity.
I don’t necessarily think you’re point is even wrong, but please know “it’s a difference between what women think they want and what they actually want” is so unbelievably condescending. Perhaps focus more on the difficulties of tailoring and less on deciding for women how they feel?
As a third party to the discussion, I don’t think “women” is the key part of it. “Customers” would do the same, but since we’re discussion womens’ clothes, it was changed to “women”.
Whenever anything bad is discussed and the word “women” is around, alarms go off too easily.
That's a fair point, I could've said that in a less condescending way, but "customers don't know what they want" is an important piece of the puzzle here.
I mean, customers not knowing what they want is a thing. When someone says "I'd like it if this thing had that functionality," they're not necessarily considering all the externalities that might make their preference less desirable. What women have now sucks, but according to a large majority the alternative sucks even more, so the status quo persists.
I’ve not seen womens pants available with larger pockets and non-form fitting. I’m not sure you can say it’s just a choice issue when the choice would be to just buy mens pants instead.
My source here is basically Reddit so I'm not sure how true this is, but I've heard multiple times that businessmen occasionally try to invest in women's pants with pockets but they don't get enough demand to make a profit. There are still some who have managed to make money this way so there are places that sell pants with pockets, but it's a small market. And no, I have no idea what those places are.
I think the problem is that the vast vast majority of women’s clothing, especially fast fashion, lacks pockets of good size (or any at all). The smaller places that make garments with good pockets are usually priced higher because they’re inherently not targeting the mass market (because they can’t compete with the big companies, so their only hope is to carve out a niche in the high quality domain)
I’m pretty sure i want pockets and i’m pretty sure that i don’t care if my figure is highlighted or not. It would be even better if my pants would draw attention to my big ass pant pockets because then i could show of my pockets.
I mean sure, that's why I said "most women" and not "all women." There is real demand for women's pants with pockets, but (especially after the more committed folks buy unisex or men's pants) the scale isn't enough to sustain a large business. That aside, do cargo pants not work if you want pockets?
I used to wear only men’s pants, including cargo pants, and oh boy is it disgusting how much better I get treated by service workers, etc. since switching to vaguely fashionable women’s pants. Fit issues aside, it’s a lot more complicated than “just buy men’s pants” (although I guess at least cargo pants for women are back “in” now?)
No because i usually prefer loose pants and if i have heavy stuff in the pockets close to the knee and walk or run, that stuff hits my legs and i don’t like that. Maybe the Pocket pants were not marketed good enough.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 weeks ago
At least for the pockets thing it's a difference between what women think they want and what they actually want. When most women say they want pants with pockets, what they mean is pants that look the same as the ones they already have, but also with pockets. That's impossible to make so, so women are forced to choose between tight pants that highlight their figure and pockets and they choose the former. As for bras, after a quick google my less than educated guess is that because bigger bras have rapidly increased in demand in the past two decades (and even then many wear bras that are too small), at the turn of the century business execs were right to consider bigger bras to be a marginal market with no point in worrying too much about it. Now, however, they're just out of touch. If I'm right hopefully this will correct itself once someone wakes up to the business opportunity.
chicken@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
I don’t necessarily think you’re point is even wrong, but please know “it’s a difference between what women think they want and what they actually want” is so unbelievably condescending. Perhaps focus more on the difficulties of tailoring and less on deciding for women how they feel?
Allero@lemmy.today 5 weeks ago
As a third party to the discussion, I don’t think “women” is the key part of it. “Customers” would do the same, but since we’re discussion womens’ clothes, it was changed to “women”.
Whenever anything bad is discussed and the word “women” is around, alarms go off too easily.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 weeks ago
That's a fair point, I could've said that in a less condescending way, but "customers don't know what they want" is an important piece of the puzzle here.
Seleni@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Every time the pockets-in-pants thing comes up:
Women in the comments: OMG yes please what we have now sucks
Men in the comments: well acktually…
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 weeks ago
I mean, customers not knowing what they want is a thing. When someone says "I'd like it if this thing had that functionality," they're not necessarily considering all the externalities that might make their preference less desirable. What women have now sucks, but according to a large majority the alternative sucks even more, so the status quo persists.
AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 5 weeks ago
I have literally never heard a woman complain about having reasonably sized pockets.
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 5 weeks ago
Mansplain to me harder daddy!
wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
I’ve not seen womens pants available with larger pockets and non-form fitting. I’m not sure you can say it’s just a choice issue when the choice would be to just buy mens pants instead.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 weeks ago
My source here is basically Reddit so I'm not sure how true this is, but I've heard multiple times that businessmen occasionally try to invest in women's pants with pockets but they don't get enough demand to make a profit. There are still some who have managed to make money this way so there are places that sell pants with pockets, but it's a small market. And no, I have no idea what those places are.
AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 5 weeks ago
I think the problem is that the vast vast majority of women’s clothing, especially fast fashion, lacks pockets of good size (or any at all). The smaller places that make garments with good pockets are usually priced higher because they’re inherently not targeting the mass market (because they can’t compete with the big companies, so their only hope is to carve out a niche in the high quality domain)
slowmorella@discuss.tchncs.de 5 weeks ago
I’m pretty sure i want pockets and i’m pretty sure that i don’t care if my figure is highlighted or not. It would be even better if my pants would draw attention to my big ass pant pockets because then i could show of my pockets.
AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 5 weeks ago
Image
This but pants
slowmorella@discuss.tchncs.de 5 weeks ago
yeah!
flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
I love this approach
“Nice pants”
“Check out the pockets though!”
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 weeks ago
I mean sure, that's why I said "most women" and not "all women." There is real demand for women's pants with pockets, but (especially after the more committed folks buy unisex or men's pants) the scale isn't enough to sustain a large business. That aside, do cargo pants not work if you want pockets?
munk@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I used to wear only men’s pants, including cargo pants, and oh boy is it disgusting how much better I get treated by service workers, etc. since switching to vaguely fashionable women’s pants. Fit issues aside, it’s a lot more complicated than “just buy men’s pants” (although I guess at least cargo pants for women are back “in” now?)
slowmorella@discuss.tchncs.de 5 weeks ago
No because i usually prefer loose pants and if i have heavy stuff in the pockets close to the knee and walk or run, that stuff hits my legs and i don’t like that. Maybe the Pocket pants were not marketed good enough.