I’m curious what it is about conservative ideology that appeals to you. Because I have come to the conclusion after several decades on this planet, that deep down it is a destructive, and morally bankrupt philosophy.
Nemo@slrpnk.net 3 hours ago
I’m a conservative, and no. Charlie Kirk was awful. I’m a pacifist, so I’m not glad he’s dead but I’m not surprised either. “Those who live by the sword” and all that.
“Burn it all down” flies straight in the face of conservatism anyway. It’s all about tying to save the good things in society from destruction. When it feels like the government or society is all gone wrong is the time when it’s most important to save what we can.
I’ll be honest, it’s hard to feel hopeful when our current President won reëlection on a deeply regressive platform. The man is hostile to any kind of conservatism because he hates checks on his power. His vocal wrath is directed against progressive standards because that’s what riles up his base but at the same time he’s doing damage to our government and social institutions that will last for generations. He’s a nightmare for conservatism. But that just makes it all the more important to fight the tide. Giving up and burning it all down is not the answer.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 hours ago
Nemo@slrpnk.net 2 hours ago
I’m curious how you came to your conclusions, too, because the point of conservatism, to me, is to prevent destruction.
I’ve been a environmental conservationist my whole life. As I became an adult and aware of politics, I came to realize that just as the natural environment requires protection against the selfishness, greed, and short-sightedness of humanity, so too do all the social and political systems that take decades or centuries to build but only years or months to destroy (as we’ve seen under the current administration).
It’s been said many times that at the heart of all conservatism is fear. That’s not a very generous way to put it, but neither is it inaccurate. Fear of loss, fear of risk, fear of change. Conservatism holds that if things are pretty good, most changes are likely to make things worse and not better, and so change is to be treated with suspicion, and people pushing for it doubly so, since altruism is rare.
A bicycle needs both pedals and brakes. We need to move forward, but not recklessly. Before a change is made, the case needs to be argued as to why it is necessary, what it will cost (and there’s always a cost), how to ensure it actually achieves what it sets out to achieve, and how it might be misused in the future. In other words, before a change can be made in the name of Progress, it needs to be demonstrated that the change actually is Progress. To progressives, this feels like standing in the way of Progress. To a conservative, this is safeguarding Progress, the Progress previous generations achieved, from changes that, again, are more likely to be bad than good.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 minutes ago
I think that, perhaps, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the generally accepted (speaking for the US here) definition of the conservative political ideology actually is.
Modern conservatives do not care about conserving the environment. Literally the opposite.
Uruanna@lemmy.world 28 minutes ago
You built up your very own definition of the word while ignoring what any political conservative movement in the world actually does. You listened to someone’s argument on the concept of a definition, an idea that was stapled to a word in your head, without actually looking at factual reality. What you describe is simply not what any conservative party anywhere does.
Starting with the idea that you are conserving something that runs well and not spending resource on frivolous nonsense that doesn’t work - just look at everything a conservative party actually funds while blocking money for anything remotely humanitarian because they claim it doesn’t work, or based on the slightest disagreement about a boundary, while being themselves the very reason it doesn’t work.
Look at what is actually protected. And at who isn’t, based on not giving too much to someone you don’t think deserves it. Do those who already have all that deserve it?
Starting with your environmental conservationist sensibility and reducing that you want to be a conservative is already super wild, it’s antinomic. You think you protect something from greed and selfishness, but those who who block progress are the selfish ones who hoard everything out of greed, using “this doesn’t deserve it” or “you can’t prove this works” as an excuse to keep everything. You are not safeguarding anything, and there’s zero place for environmental protection in any conservative party anywhere.
DreamAccountant@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Nazis hate preachers aren’t awful for conservatism, they ARE conservatism.
“But I’m just a fiscal conservative, the only REAL kind of conservative!”
You’re joining forces with nazis. If you’re not a nazi, you’re a nazi collaberator. So please kindly go fuck yourself with your bullshit that only you believe.
Nemo@slrpnk.net 3 hours ago
Fiscal conservatism doesn’t work, any economist can tell you that.
You’re completely correct that conservatism destroyed its reputation when it allied with the religious right in an attempt at political power. The regressives took over the GOP, calling themself conservatives all the while. Terrible to watch from the outside, but like I said, giving up is not the answer. The only thing to do is push back, and try to save what can be saved.
glimse@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
The only thing to do is push back, and try to save what can be saved.
Not trying to bait here but what do you want to save and how far back are you going to find something worth saving? Some aspects of fiscal conservatism have their merits but I’m stumped thinking of any good socially-conservative opinions from the past hundred years
Nemo@slrpnk.net 1 hour ago
A non-stacked Supreme Court
The Electoral College
Human Rights
Civil Rights
Checks on Presidential power
the American melting pot
Birthright Citizenship
Separation of Church and State
basically all of the Enlightenment ideals the country was founded on and have been working towards, it fits and starts, for most of her existence
Steve@communick.news 1 hour ago
I find it strange that anyone can look at the current US government and think it’s “Conservative”. The Republican Party has clearly become a radical, right wing, extremist, authoritarian, revolutionary sort of ideology. It’s obvious they want to completely remake the government and all of society. They’re not looking to conserve anything anymore.
Nemo@slrpnk.net 1 hour ago
Exactly right.