Comment on Bees don't have lungs.

• TomasEkeli@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  some have book-lungs not true lungs. Only us fish have “true” lungs

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  • Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Agreed. I was referring to book lungs.

    Also, I feel like you got some ‘splainin’ to do regarding the fish reference.

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    • frigidaphelion@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      In a nutshell: speaking cladistically, there is no such thing as a fish, or alternatively, all tetrapods are fish. You cant define a monophyletic group that includes “fish” that doesnt also include humans (and all other tetrapods eg birds and such). That’s my understanding anyway

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      • Soggy@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Fish is a polyphyletic group. It’s a shorthand to refer to various lines of aquatic vertebrates with a similar anatomy. It’s not a clade but that’s not the only way to logically group organisms. People trot it out like a “gotcha” or just misuse it in much the same way they don’t understand speciation (or most science terminology, to be frank)

        We are not fish by anyone’s honest definition, but “there’s no such thing as a fish” is the kind of attention-grabbing false revelation I hate: it’s the headline with none of the understanding to actually learn something.

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      • faythofdragons@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        From what I understand, this is sorta like a hangover from pre-DNA taxonomy. We went “yeah, those all look like fish, we’ll put them in the fish group”, only to find out later that a bunch of them weren’t very closely related at all. So now we have a ‘fish’ group that’s a total mess, and we’re in the middle of getting it organized and re-labelled.

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      • Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Can’t we just un-fish it like we do for other clades when we need to?

        “There’s an ape in the office!”

        “Yes, his name is Tom. More importantly, he is a human being, and we don’t refer to them as apes outside of an academic context and even then, only when necessary.”

        [Tom eats a banana, screams at an intern, and starts picking his nose]

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    • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      We’re all descended from fish.

      Also, IIRC, some fish are more closely related to us than they are to other fish, making it impossible to biologically define a category of animal that includes everything we call a fish but doesn’t include us.

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      • Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Thanks!

        Also, I recognize your username. I feel like you may have encountered my ignorance on at least one previous occasion.

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  • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Only us fish have “true” lungs

    Image

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• T156@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Usually not lungs as they exist in mammals, though.

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  • Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    You’re right. They’re different.

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