Jesus is still alive, His resurrection and ascension was witnessed.
Dude’s been hiding for a while then. Probably out of embarrassment.
Comment on Sir Gareth Southgate: Boys need role models, not gaming and porn
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks agoJesus is real, and that’s a historical fact. Jesus is still alive, His resurrection and ascension was witnessed.
But that’s besides the point; who else who is “alive and real” would you suggest is a better rolemodel? Even if Jesus was fictional, He’s still a pretty good role model by what’s written about Him.
Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
The look on your face when He comes back will be hilarious
Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
When’s he due? I might make time to pop along and see him.
cman6@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Pretty sure Jesus (biblical Jesus) is dead
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
He rose again
cman6@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Swell. Do you have a video? Or picture? Or any kind of evidence?
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
Do you have a video, picture or any kind of evidence that Julius Caesar was murdered?
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 weeks ago
Jesus was nailed to a cross, tortured for days then imprisoned when he didn’t die from it right away. Who did that? Conservatives. Conservatives today believe Jesus’s messages of empathy, accepting others, and helping everyone are weakness that should be stamped out. Yet they all claim “country and God”. So if Jesus exists his message is clearly dead and just used to control masses and get them to fall in line. If you want to cherish the ideology of what Jesus was originally pushed as, that’s wonderful, but just as language evolves so does “Jesus.”. He’s now a curb stomp those you are unsure about, shoot that person that looks different than me, and if you ask me for help you should be deported to a slave labor camp.
Or maybe that’s just what the majority of Christian followers in the U.S believe.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
Jesus did die right away. His lungs were collapsed, there was no way a human could survive that.
You’re right about conservatives being wrong about Jesus. I do not care what americans have warped the Gospel into, it doesn’t change what Jesus did for me. I can’t just say “Sorry Jesus, I know you were tortured and died for me, but the people you warned about claim to follow you and do awful things, so I’m going to turn down what you did to me.” That won’t make sense.
Sure, ideology does change and maybe “Christianity” cannot be synonymous with what Jesus taught anymore. Doesn’t change who Jesus is.
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 weeks ago
Yeah, I think you’re right about the Jesus and Christianity being split. I hope you do find all the joy in the world following the original Jesus’s ideology.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
I do. That’s why I said Jesus is a good rolemodel. I’d never say the Church is a good rolemodel or that people should follow what other Christians are doing.
whotookkarl@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
He had some bangers but also some real shit takes like slaves obey your masters, faith healing, and substitutionary atonement. He’s been dead for ages and the multiple times he told his disciples the second coming would be within their lifetime never happened.
If you want better role models look at Fred Rogers Dolly Parton, Bob Ross, people that are generous and charitable without damning anyone who doesn’t agree with their religion or believe they are a divine messiah.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
Slaves obey your masters wasn’t Jesus. Also, what’s wrong with substitutionary atonement?
whotookkarl@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
If I steal 20 bucks from you then I need to ask for your forgiveness, if my friend Tom forgives me it does nothing to apologize to or provide reparations for victims.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
Because if we were all to be punished for our sin, everyone will be thrown into hell eternally. That’s the punishment for sin.
deadcatbounce@reddthat.com 4 weeks ago
Historical fact where?
There is absolutely no evidence of his existence anywhere. No writing about his existence. Nothing.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
That’s just flat out wrong.
Antiquities of the Jews - Flavius Josephus Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a, 107b, Sotah 47a) Annals – Tacitus Lives of the Caesars – Suetonius Letters (Book 10, Letter 96) – Pliny the Younger Letter of Mara bar Serapion The True Word – Celsus (Referenced in Origen’s Contra Celsum) The Passing of Peregrinus – Lucian of Samosata Gospel According to Matthew Gospel According to Mark Gospel According to Luke Gospel According to John Acts of the Apostles Epistle to the Romans First Epistle to the Corinthians Second Epistle to the Corinthians Epistle to the Galatians Epistle to the Ephesians Epistle to the Philippians Epistle to the Colossians First Epistle to the Thessalonians Second Epistle to the Thessalonians First Epistle to Timothy Second Epistle to Timothy Epistle to Titus Epistle to Philemon Epistle to the Hebrews Epistle of James First Epistle of Peter Second Epistle of Peter First Epistle of John Second Epistle of John Third Epistle of John Epistle of Jude
quack@lemmy.zip 4 weeks ago
I’m genuinely not trying to be a dick here, but citing the Bible as proof of the existence of Jesus is kind of like citing a comic as proof of the existence of Batman. No non-Christian is going to accept that evidence.
cman6@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
I’m not advocating for @Flax at all here, but I think it’s generally accepted that someone called Jesus (there were a LOT of people named Jesus back in the day) did exist and was something of a teacher.
Son of god though?.. no
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
Hate to break it to you, but that’s not historically honest.
“The Bible” is actually just a library of records gathered by various people which testify God. If there was another record/first-hand account about Jesus, it would be in the Bible. So not really. It’s more like trying to use records of Rome to prove that events happened in Rome, like the assassination of Julius Caesar. Or observations about other historical events to prove that event.
So essentially, these are all separate records, the Bible is just a compilation (except for Luke and Acts, they were originally one record, which I have amended my original comment to show)
The circular reasoning argument you are thinking about is about using the Bible to prove the Bible (eg, saying the Bible says it’s true, therefore it is). I’m not using the Bible to try and prove itself, I’m using the Bible to try and prove Jesus. You claimed there are no written records, yet that’s exactly what the Bible is. You can’t just dismiss it because a few hundred years later, Christians decided to canonise it as one text.
And even then, you can in a way, through textual criticism and supplementary historical evidence, prove things about a text (such as criterion of embarrassment, preservation, other details from the authors) relating to it’s legitimacy.
The texts of the New Testament have been one of the most spread and reproduced documents from the Roman empire period, nevermind the first century
Most historical events don’t have the documentation made about Jesus. They all popped up at the same time saying the same thing yet from different perspectives. Then there’s archaeological evidence carrying on about Christianity and a church existing, all from the first century. Something big must have happened, typically things like that don’t happen.
Lastly, not all of the texts I mentioned were biblical. The others were from other historians which didn’t have enough detail to be included in the Bible. The thing is, if they were more detailed, they would have most likely been included in the Bible, making your standard quite the tautology
It’s kind of like someone saying “use studies from academics showing the legitimacy and arguing in favour of the Bible- by the way, you cannot cite Christian Apologists” when by definition, a Christian apologist is someone who argues in favour of Christianity. If they were to argue in favour of Christianity, they’ll be a Christian apologist. It’ll be a tautology. Like how any detailed contemporary account of Jesus by someone close to Him would have most likely been included in the Bible.
SleafordMod@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
If Christianity only expected people to think that Jesus was a good role model then maybe I would be more willing to turn up at my local church. But Christianity expects a further belief: that Jesus is the son of God, which is a supernatural claim.
Personally I’m just not sure I believe the supernatural stuff.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
The major foundation of Christianity is a belief in God, basically. Without believing in God, there’s no point to being a Christian. It is kinda hard to argue though that Jesus as protrayed in the Bible is not a good role model.