Tradition is big. E.g TCM crap over science
You cannot disagree with the state
Stokes fear and hatred of outsiders
Blames social frustrations on those outsiders
Appeals to restore past glory
Han ethnic supremacy
Comment on It really is like this
satxdude@lemm.ee 1 day agoYou may or may not think China is “authoritarian” but how on earth are they fascist?
StraponStratos@lemmy.sdf.org 1 day ago
verdigris@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
This is all some seriously internalized US propaganda.
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 day ago
What is? Calling China fascist isn’t American propaganda because the government and its sources do not claim China is fascist. The Americans calling China fascist are poorly educated in fascism. China is authoritarian but not fascist.
verdigris@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
I’m agreeing with you for the most part, their list of talking points is the propaganda.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 day ago
So if you post on social media “I think Dictator Xi should be removed from office and we should have real elections again” nothing will happen?
I feel like something happens if you post that in China that you don’t want to talk about.
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 day ago
You can’t ask that in any authoritarian nation so. that isn’t demonstrating that China is fascist.
verdigris@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
What happens? Do you have any evidence of what happens besides your imagination?
Objection@lemmy.ml 9 hours ago
Appeals to restore past glory
Genuinely, what on earth are you talking about? China’s past is full of poverty, humiliation, and exploitation, literally, “The century of humiliation!” The only people who “appeal to restore past glory” are the CIA-funded Shen Yun performances romanticizing “China before communism.” The Chinese people I talk to will specifically point to the Qing as a clear demonstration of the danger of clinging to tradition and the necessity of adapting and looking forward.
China literally had a cultural revolution seeking to abolish tradition. I expect you would call that fascist just as you call if fascist whenever some people still follow tradition, after all:
“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology… What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
Been on xiaohongshu for a while now and the chinese netizens I interacted with were nothing but kind to foreigners even when we treated them like shit.
StraponStratos@lemmy.sdf.org 22 hours ago
Anecdotal evidence means nothing, doubly so from a .ml troll.
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 19 hours ago
You can literally go on XHS or douyin and speak with them yourself
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 day ago
You’re interacting with the ones who are still allowed internet access.
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
Many of them use VPNs to get around firewalls and I speak with them aswell on other platforms. I am learning mandarin and it is quite helpful
Objection@lemmy.ml 9 hours ago
Hold up, you think people in China aren’t allowed to access Chinese apps? 🤣
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 hours ago
You cannot disagree with the state
Technically you could make thinly-veiled criticisms against local governments, but just not the central government or Xi Jingping
Or you can talk shit about the government behind closed doors, there are no telescreens like Orwell’s 1984.
TCM crap over science
That shit is fucking annoying. My mom keep telling me anti-depressants are bad 😓
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Ok what about Robert Paxton’s? Those are a lot better thought out as his actual focus is fascism rather than it being a side gig like it is for Eco.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Not agreeing with your dictator makes it impossible to leave the country, keeps your bloodline out of good schools, and if your rhetoric is bad enough you just get abducted and dissappear.
Social Credit Scores are dehumanizing and evil.
Pretty fascist if you ask me.
Saurok@lemm.ee 1 day ago
The social credit score stuff is basically a Western myth. There was some local level rumblings and plans, but most of it has been unpopular or axed. The only thing that exists at a national level for individuals is the equivalent of a credit score in the US and western countries. I believed this narrative at one point, but then I delved deeper. technologyreview.com/…/china-announced-a-new-soci…
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
If you talk bad about the dictator they take away your right to buy train and airline tickets to escape the country.
This is real policy.
There are repercussions for saying you want free and fair elections, that is unacceptable
Saurok@lemm.ee 12 hours ago
Do you have a source so I could read more about it?
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Everything you listed is common to all authoritarian systems not just fascism. China is authoritarian not fascist.
UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 1 day ago
I think many might reference the Uyghur genocide + extreme authoritarianism to explain why they call China fascist. I personally, am not educated on the persecution of the Uyghur genocide part, so I’m not so sure.
But China definitely has hints of nationalism and “former glory” or whatever when they start talking about Taiwan and the South China Sea. Sooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
This is copy pasted but solid information, I can list plenty more as well. America loved to lie about the USSR then and they love to lie about China now. They use the same disprovable tactics but we fall for them because we are a new generation and have been taught propaganda in our history classes as if it is fact.
The whole conspiracy theory started with a claim of millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”.
However, this claim is completely absurd when you stop and think about it even for a minute. That figure 1 million is repeated again and again. Let’s just look at how much space would you actually need to intern one million people.
This is a photo of Rikers Island, New York City’s biggest prison. The actual size of a facility interning ten thousand people.
According to Wikipedia, “The average daily inmate population on the island is about 10,000, although it can hold a maximum of 15,000.” Let’s assume this is a Xinjiang detention camp, holding ten to fifteen thousand people. How many of these would it take to hold one million people?
Let’s do some math:
Rikers Size Rikers Prisoners One Million Uyghurs Size 413.2 acres (0.645 square miles) 10,000 to 15,000 43 to 64 square miles In reality, one million people would probably take more space; all the supposed detention camps we see are much less dense than Rikers.
For comparison, San Francisco is 47 square miles. Amsterdam is 64 square miles. You’d literally need detention camps that total the size of San Francisco or Amsterdam to intern one million Uyghurs. It’d be like looking at a map of California. There’s Los Angeles. There’s San Diego. And look, there’s San Francisco Concentration City with its one million Uyghurs.
Literally visible to the naked eye from space.
CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.” Furthermore, it doesn’t even make sense from logistics perspective.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Zenz is a born-again Christian who lectures at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible to be the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”
Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
It’s also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they’ve been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. In fact, US even classified Uyghur separatists as a terrorist group at one point www.mintpressnews.com/…/276916/
Here’s an interview with a son of imam killed in Xinjiang news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-19/…/index.html
Here’s an account from a Pakistani journalist who has been all over Xinjiang (which borders Pakistan) claims that western media reports on “atrocities” are lies. …com.pk/…/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-ab…
It’s also worth noting that the accusations originate entirely from the west while Muslim majority countries support China, and their leaders have visited Xinjiang many times.
- ctvnews.ca/…/on-eid-xinjiang-imams-defend-china-a…
- bolnews.com/…/pak-religious-leaders-nurture-bonds…
- morningstaronline.co.uk/…/islamic-envoys-say-chin…
Also notable that whenever western media actually deigns to visit Xinjiang, which is not often, they’re unable to produce support for any of their claims of mass imprisonment and oppression, so they opt for insinuations instead apnews.com/…/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china…
There’s a further list of debunking here if you’re interested redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-bli…
The whole thing is very clearly a propaganda blitz that US is cynically using to manipulate impressionable people in the west.
StraponStratos@lemmy.sdf.org 22 hours ago
You know you can tune out when they mention Zenz. He is to tankies as Soros is to Republicans.
LengAwaits@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Is there anything you could share that would shed more light on the Zenz thing? I’m not very keen on just “tuning out” my ideological opponents or dismissing them just because they don’t affirm my biases. I’d rather read up on it myself and decide.
Part of admitting that I’m not immune to propaganda, for me, is working to root it out wherever I can by reading and cross-referencing a wide range of sources. If my deepest beliefs and biases can’t stand up to that sort of scrutiny then I don’t want them anymore.
Eheran@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Far right? Hm, maybe not. Otherwise: Check, check, quasi-check, check, check, check, …
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 day ago
China has become a psudo Capitalist country in its quest for world domination.
Capitalism goes hand in hand with right wing extremism
I think China would have to do a lot more for the avg person before they could be considered socialist or communist again
Schmoo@slrpnk.net 1 day ago
Socialism isn’t when the government does stuff for the people, it’s when the people take matters into their own hands and do stuff for the good of each other. Even if a state behaves in the most benevolent way possible, it is not socialist unless the workers have collective ownership of the means of production.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 day ago
By the definition there are no socialist countries.
When people talk about socialism in the real world it doesn’t mean owning the means of production
Carl@lemm.ee 23 hours ago
Within the last five years China completely eliminated the worst category of poverty in their borders. I’d say they are currently actively engaged in doing a lot more for the average person than most countries.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
If you can take the Chinese Government for their word. Which I can’t
cybersin@lemm.ee 1 day ago
So… Authoritarian, and not far right… So… Not fascist.
Calling a government fascist, but not far-right is like calling Death Valley a lake. There’s no fucking water (anymore), its not a fucking lake.
Eheran@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Mate, the only thing missing from that list to also check far right would be extreme conservatism. No idea how much China is conservative and how much that matters compared to other things. It would be like death valley in a different country.
cybersin@lemm.ee 1 hour ago
You simply don’t understand.
Far-right, ultra-conservative, and fascist are synonyms. There is no difference between these terms.
They all describe the same thing; fascism.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 1 day ago
I mean yeah… Far right is kinda a big part of distinguishing authoritarian left vs authoritarian right. I think the only way you could possibly conflate the two is by ignoring economics.
dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 day ago
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MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The far-right part is critical though. It’s kind of like how breast cancer needs to be in breast tissues. China is just authoritarian.
usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Exactly. China is colon cancer, not breast cancer