Comment on moms rule

chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

• Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  In Western Europe at least back to the early medieval period it was common for anyone who wasn’t nobility to have their first child around 22. The younger you are the more likely you’re going to have serious (fatal, back then) complications. It was the nobility that was marrying off barely pubescent kids.

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  • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    It was the nobility that was marrying off barely pubescent kids.

    Same as it ever was.

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  • Sabre363@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Could we say (for no other reason than I’m stoned and it sounds good) the rough average mother-age is 18-ish? Then there would be roughly ~110 mothers since Jesus cheated and respawned for our sins.

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  • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    What was it like outside of Western Europe?

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    • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      No idea, I’m not as read up on that. It would shock me if it was significantly different just because risk of death from complications is a hard biological line the younger you get, pre-modern medicine.

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      • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        There are definitely cultures who have practiced polygyny to get around this issue. Some still do today, for example in many different countries in Africa where people still practice a pastoral life.

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• Acamon@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  As the other commentator says, medieval Europe was mostly early twenties. Studies of stone age remains suggest a first birth age average of 19.5 and contemporary hunter gather societies have a comparable average. Sexual activity generally begins earlier, during adolescence, but the most “reproductively successful” age for beginning childbearing has been shown to be around 18-19. Also, this age at first birth isnt “Average age of a child’s mother” as many women would have multiple kids over their life, so the average sibling would have a much older mother at birth than the firstborn.

  Its important to remember that puberty has shifted massively since industrialisation, "menarche age has receded from 16.5 years in 1880 to the current 12.5 years in western societies". So the post-puberty fecundity peak, that use to happen 17-19, when women are fully grown enough to minimise birth complications, now happens at a disressingly young 13-15. Not only is this a big social yuck for most western societies, but it’s reproductively unideal, because of the complications linked to childbirth at that age.

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  • Fritee@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Huh, that’s interesting. Do we know why the menarche age has receded?

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    • shneancy@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      if you click that study link it’s exactly about that

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• HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  First births yes, but what about average age? Our ancestors may have been second born, third born, eighth born etc

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  • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    High maternal mortality meant that having more than about 7 children per woman was rare. Total fertility rate was about 4.5 to 7 in the pre modern era. Population growth was low due to infant and early childhood mortality though.

    If you start having children at age 12, you can have a child every year and reach 7 children by age 20.

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    • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Based on my own genealogical research, the trend I typically saw was 6-8 kids, between 18 and early 30s, about 20% of which died. Plus consider that some of those will be sons, and some daughters never become mothers, 25 is pretty spot on for the average age for a mother-to-mother generational gap.

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      • pseudo@jlai.lu ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Yes abd the field of genealogy, the size of a generation is given as 25 years. I believe specialists of genealogy who had to defined this metric did think about the way couple had kids in the past.

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• emeralddawn45@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Maybe 28 would be a better average, but even if wvery women in your line gave birth at 12.5 that only doubles the other. And its fair to say not every mother would have been a first child. Also many still would have been born later than 25, so it probably evens out pretty well.

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• TheWolfOfSouthEnd@lemmygrad.ml ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Don’t they say teenagers/adolescence were invented in the 50s as that was the first time people were able to afford to allow their kids to carry on education?

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