Submitted 1 day ago by akunohana@piefed.blahaj.zone to [deleted]
What is the purpose of being poisonous and is not being poisonous a relative weakness?
If poisonous mushrooms are poisonous because it is advantageous for the survival of the specific species, are non poisonous mushroom relatively speaking weaker, less well equipped for the furthering of their species? I suppose that the ability to survive and further a species is multifaceted and that being poisonous or the lack thereof is just one of many parameters?
I would argue that every species alive to day evidently found a strategy that works, otherwise they wouldn’t be here.
Perhaps some mushrooms actually rely on being eaten somehow. Or perhaps being poisonous comes with downsides, so it isn’t purely an advantage.
apparently gastropods, slugs and snails eat them without ill effect, maybe some insects. mushroom spread through thier spores, either through the wind, or rain. uncommonly some are parasitic on insects.
also mushroom isnt th whole organism anyways, its just the fruiting body. its the filaments in the ground that are mycohrrizae to other plants, like grasses,other plants and trees. so they can just grow new mushroom every now and then.
also fun fact, since fungi love moisture they usually grow mushrooms right after a rainy day.
there are plenty of animals that would eat fungi, its nutritious. slugs, bugs. death cap is the most toxic, specifically anamita phalloides, destroying angels is one too. the toxin amatoxin-A, and phalloidin both are toxic to the liver, usually kills you within days if untreated. the symptoms are extreme hunger. mammals are most affected, but bugs/slugs evolved a way to deal with it.
Looking at all the elaborate replies, I cannot help being amazed. Here I thought the Fedi is overrepresented by computers geeks (such as yours truly) but obviously they’ve got NOTHING on the biologically inclined here! 🥰😍
i was bio in college. you be fascinated how certain plants produce thier toxin, and how they make it biochemically. obviously for plants they dont want be eaten so they produce very toxic compounds. and then things like certain insects evolved to deal with toxins. just think of native milkweeds and monarch butterflies , they evolved to concentrate the milkweed poisons it in thier bodies. simarly certain swallowtail related to monarchs use plants called aristholcia(ornamental plants too) the plants are quite toxic, and carcinogenic.
Well, we are computer geeks, we just (sometimes) have other avenues of interest too.
Some of us are biology geeks who know how computers work too.
If poisonous mushrooms are poisonous because it is advantageous for the survival of the specific species, are non poisonous mushroom relatively speaking weaker, less well equipped for the furthering of their species?
It depends on many factors/variables. For instance, if they spread by being eaten and then shit out in a different area then being poisonous could work against them. If they don’t have something that preys on them by eating them, then producing poison can make them do work that would be better spent in some other fashion.
I suppose that the ability to survive and further a species is multifaceted and that being poisonous or the lack thereof is just one of many parameters?
Correct
I know something about poisonous berries.
They’re not poisonous to birds but are to mammals with teeth.
If a mammal would eat them they would crush and destroy the seeds. Birds do spread the seeds though.
We have an invasive Arum Italicum here which has poisonous berries and I thought that was stupid but apparently it’s targeted deterrence and it’s not stupid.
Isn’t that the same with capsicum (chili), which wants to be eaten by birds. Until some very dumb mammals came along and said “Oi, noice pain! Me like!”
yeah peppers, marijuana, tomatoes
we like all of that
birds are practically immune to most berries, something to do with thier digestive system, and different receptors for those poisons. they can eat Yew “berries” with no ill effect.
Well, there’s poisonous, toxic and indigestible. Various things can be one of those three to various other things; since mushrooms came first, you’ll find that most of them tend to be toxic to other organisms that haven’t evolved to consume them. Also, it’s good to differentiate between the mycelium and the fruit; often the mushroom fruits ARE poisonous to mammals because they propagate by airborne spores, so the poison evolved as a protection against being eaten before they could spore.
Other mushrooms depend on other features for their survival, from looking like a poisonous mushroom, to not fruiting, to making digestion by an animal part of their reproductive process.
There’s probably more variety in the mushroom kingdom than there is in the animal kingdom.
the mushroom is the reproductive, of mostly mychorrizae type fungi, there are other ones arbuscular(associated with trees), if you want get into niche like mycoheterotrophic plants, they have thier own unique interactions. orchids, some heather “Families”,
Another thing to note is that evolution works on everything all at once. The fact that a chemical is poisonous to mammals can be coincidentally when the real purpose is for something else. Fungus have to do lots of decomposing and digesting of different compounds.
Also to note that the mushroom part is just the fruiting body for the fungus that spreads the seeds. So poison there is under a different evolutionary pressure than a poison frog who will die when eaten . If the fruiting body spreads spores then it’s done it’s job
You should ask toxic people, they seem to thrive in this economy (ba dum tss).
IDK anything about biology so this is just supposition…
Aren’t fungi one of the oldest forms of life?
If so is it possible the poison isn’t really relevant to the fungis survival and reproduction, but just… incidentally toxic to mammals?
yes they evolved like 1bn years ago, so very old. algae even older. archaea, an bacteria likely appeared 3.5bn years ago.
I would guess it depends on the environment. Energy needs to he expended to develop and secrete toxins, it’s not a free perk.
Plus, you have all the fungi (+ other critters) who cheat and simply look like a poisonous guy to avoid getting eaten. I know there’s lots of snakes and such that do that, there are probably plenty of copycat shrooms.
Did not do biology so don’t know any of the specifics!
what gets me is poisonous berries. usually the point of fruit is to get eaten and spread the seeds. you basically want the seed to be indigestible so that it is eaten around or spit out or survives the process to be deposited in poop.
poisonous berries aren’t poisonous to birds because they poop out the seed but they are poisonous to animals with teeth who would crush and the destroy the teeth
As for ourselves, and most other mammals: we rely heavily on social relationships, so much so that our survival is dependent on it. Suddenly becoming poisonous would be a big disadvantage to us. Imagine if all pets and livestock got poisoned from us touching them.
Well we’re kind of poisoning the world already. But you get what I mean.
Sorry to be that guy, but: venomous*
If you get sick from biting it, it’s poisonous.
If you get sick from it biting you, it’s venomous.
Man, the amount of times I’ve been bitten by a mushroom, too many to count, too painful to recount.
Slatlun@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
There are some flaws in the common understanding of survival of the fittest, but I will ignore that for now.
Poison is usually energy intensive to make, so there is an investment from the mushroom in being harder to eat. If there is not a strong pressure from predators, or the mushroom adopts a different strategy like making tons of fruiting bodies (mushrooms), it might not be worth the cost to make the poison.
Finally, poison doesn’t automatically win the evolutionary race. We eat tons of stuff that the plant/mushroom intended to be a deterrent or poison (why are peppers spicy?).
weps@lemmy.world 1 day ago
THC is also a detterant
it’s usually not good for your survival if you’re stoned (if you’re a wild animal)
Lehmuusa@nord.pub 1 day ago
And now it’s suddenly a reproductive strategy. The same with what chili intended as poison. Hemp and chili wouldn’t grow a tenth as much as they do if it wasn’t fornus liking their poison.