My sister’s AMAB friend likes to look like a girl and even said she wanted to be a “Japanese woman”, why would conservatives think using she/her pronouns for her is forcing an agenda?

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• Varying9125@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  They don’t respect trans people, and they view using the correct pronouns as being “forced” to show respect. Pretty much just people being cruel as always

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• owenfromcanada@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  If you’re genuinely curious, I can give you a glimpse into their rationality (though I strongly disagree with it).

  Say, for just a brief moment, that you consider trans people to be mentally ill. Calling them by their preferred pronouns would be like giving a drink to an alcoholic–you’d be encouraging it, which would be to their detriment. And worse, you’d be liable to whatever diety might be displeased with your actions that caused someone else to continue in their sin.

  Of course, that only works if you have a very poor understanding of both gender and theology. The real reason the bigots don’t like trans people is because it challenges their worldview, which is uncomfortable. And instead of facing that head on, they’d rather try to justify their current view.

  The Oatmeal wrote a great info comic on this.

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  • vvilld@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If we’re giving them the benefit of the doubt, which I don’t think most deserve, there’s also a theological argument. For religious people (specifically Christians), they believe that people are made to God’s plan. If you are born male, they believe that’s what God intended. So changing your gender is, in their mind, blasphemy against God because it’s denying his plan for you.

    Of course, this argument completely falls apart when you draw the parallel to people who change their hair color, get corrective or cosmetic surgery, etc. God also intended you to be blonde with bad eyesight, but you dyed your hair and got Lasik.

    But the real answer is just bigotry. They try to rationalize their bigotry, and may not even recognize it as bigotry themselves, but that’s what it is.

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    • owenfromcanada@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Even more apparent is when you draw the parallel to birth defects, diseases, or literally any reason we affect our bodies.

      Pretty much all bigots don’t realize it. There are almost no Bond villains in real life–humans can’t really exist in a state where they truly believe they’re the “bad guy.” Some people know they’re wrong, but they see themselves as a victim, not a villain.

      Not only do they not recognize their bigotry, they believe themselves to be the “good guys” in this situation, with opinions on other people ranging from condescending pity to complete disregard.

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• JayleneSlide@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  If you look at from a different perspective, it all makes more sense. Right now, you’re trying to apply the incorrect logic and an ethical consistency to anti-trans efforts. The anti-trans efforts are a test to move the Overton Window rightward. Trans and NB people are such a tiny minority. By targeting and othering that demographic, Conservatives are testing how much the rest of the citizenry will tolerate the next steps in fascism: targeting other minorities, miscegenation, segregation, concentration camps… whatever it takes to make a white xian US.

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• MossyFeathers@pawb.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It’s forcing an agenda or an “ideological war” in the same way the civil war was about states rights.

  Yeah, it was about states rights: the right for non-slave states to choose not to return escaped slaves. That’s a huge reason why the south got so pissy at the north, the north decided they didn’t want to return slaves to the south; slavery wasn’t legal in the north and so being an escaped slave in the north effectively meant you were a Freedman. The south didn’t like that because they saw slaves as property that was basically “stealing itself”.

  Something similar is going on with trans rights, only it’s even more complex than the factors leading to the civil war. It’s about the right to do what you want with your own body. The right to be seen how you want to be seen, and treated how you want to be treated (yanno, within reason; I’m not gonna bow down to someone who claims to be a princess and kiss her feet, but I will call her a princess if she asks). These are, in my opinion, basic human rights and as such, attempting to state anything else is “The Agenda”. Unsurprisingly, history repeats itself and the bigots are now attempting to force their agenda and ideology on others while claiming the other side is the one doing it (this, btw, is called projection).

  Note: there are a ton of different cultural factors that make bigots believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Tbh, I don’t really want to get into that because I’d be writing pages instead of paragraphs. However, a lot of it in the US specifically has to do with religion and adherence to tradition; and how as life gets harder, people adhere more and more strongly to tradition. Well, life’s getting hard for the average American. They’re feeling increasingly squeezed for time and money, so out goes rationality and empathy, and in comes tradition and religion.

  ---

  Btw, if you and your sister are both AFAB then, for the love of god, support her. As a trans woman who didn’t start transitioning until she was 30, it would have meant a lot to me and radically changed my life if I’d had friends I was comfortable truly being myself around; and it means a hell of a lot more if the support is coming from your peers (in this case, female classmates, especially cisfem classmates).

  It’s scary as fuck being trans, and I won’t lie, cis women are intimidating. I don’t really give a shit about how cis men see me. In my head, cis-women are the ultimate judge of who gets to be called “a woman” and it makes me feel like a little part of my soul dies every time I’m rejected. Like, I’m sorry I wasn’t born pretty. I’m sorry I was born with a penis, and I have wide shoulders and narrow hips and my tits are still tiny because I just started hrt. I can’t help it and there’s only so much I can physically change. Anything else is too expensive.

  I just want to be myself and be accepted for it.

  Treat her as her preferred gender. Make her forget she was AMAB and the bigotry of the world around her. Invite her to girls nights, let her try on clothes and do a cute little spin when she puts on a skirt. Help her do make up and braid her hair (if it’s long enough). Play games together, watch movies together, treat her as one of you. Be her friends “cool big sister”.

  And when life kicks her in the balls for being “a man”, make sure you and your sister give her a shoulder to cry on. Remind her that, when it comes to human anatomy, a penis is almost literally just a huge clit. No, seriously. Fetuses start out with female genitalia regardless of chromosomes, and then the female genitals turn into male genitals before birth (if you have XY chromosomes, usually). So she doesn’t have a penis, just has a very well endowed clitoris.

  Do that and you might also find other trans gals (and possibly trans guys and non-binary pals) congregating around you. Your sister’s friend may feel like they can be more open about being trans, but not everyone does. For every trans person who lives out of the closet, there are probably 5 more who are too scared to be their best selves out of fear of rejection. Publically showing acceptance will help others feel accepted themselves (and in turn, help them to accept themselves, because that’s a really hard thing to do). Public acceptance also helps normalize being trans as being “Just A Thing Some Humans Do”, which helps fight against bigotry itself.

  Join the revolution and fight against bigotry.

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• Fecundpossum@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think it’s pretty fucking obvious what their problem is. They don’t want the newfound visibility that trans people have gained over the last few years to present a visible option for their kids and grandkids. They didn’t care about trans people years ago because they were largely in the shadows. Now that the language and culture around trans people is becoming visible to the average American, it has become the perfect shibboleth for the right wing to rally around no different than when the Christian right pulled abortion out of thin air as a rallying point to drive right wing voters. Don’t want your daughter to embarrass the fuck out of you at social functions when they introduce themselves as Xe/Xer/Xim? Vote Republican. That’s the point of the manufactured outrage. A way to drive funding and votes for fascism. And it worked. Trans visibility is the golden egg dropped in trumps lap that put him back in office.

  This isn’t just mindless theorizing. I work with these right wing jackasses. It’s all they talk about.

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• bluegreenwookie@bookwormstory.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Conservatives want a strict gender binary. They dont even like women wearing pants and would love to go back to the days when cross dressing was illegal.

  In other words conservatives are the ones with the agenda. Trans people just want to live their lives in peace

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• starlinguk@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  They’ve picked trans people as a “danger” so people don’t realise what the true dangers are (like having a fascist president, for example).

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• luce@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  the behaviors your describing dont seem “obectively” problematic whatsoever, but there are two things here that matter:

  1. This goes against typical conservative ideas about gender roles (especially the more sexist conservative ideas)
  2. There is a label for this behavior: “Transgender” This label both allows people to defend “trans people” as a group of people or category, but it also allows one to demonize the group and endlessly produce lies and propaganda about a group of people that is frankly pretty small. And importantly a group that holds no social or political power, meaning it is the perfect target for far right figures who want to sell the people a scapegoat. Honestly, you could argue the existence of this label(or maybe its prominence as an identity) is only the result of “normal” peoples need to have labels for behaviors viewed as “weird” or different from the norms. Our existence as “trans people” fundamentally makes us people different from the norm.

  There are other reasons too though.

  By the way, I am not saying that “the category transgender is oppressive and we should stop using it” but i do hope for a future where queer people live in such peace to the point where there is no need to rally behind labels, where we can just exist with our behaviors, being ourselves.

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• RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I have a friend named Mark that goes by Eddie. If you call Eddie “Mark” he will get offended because while “Mark” is Eddie’s given name it isn’t how he sees himself. Eddie prefers a different name.

  Im not sure what the difference between my buddy Eddie and the situation you are talking about as it seems to be the issue is whether you should call people by their preferred name or not.

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  • xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Because a pronoun is not a name.

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    • RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      There really isn’t a difference though. Calling her a him isn’t less offensive than calling Eddie Mark.

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• HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  These are bs issues they use to keep people away from noticing how they are tearing everything apart and selling it off to go in their own pockets. Nobody is forced to use prefered or proper gender terms. Source. High school. Including gym teachers.

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• zbyte64@awful.systems ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  There’s a plenty of ideological reasons, but I think it is partly the environment being so stressful makes it harder for people to be considerate to new viewpoints or people.

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  • can@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It takes more energy to be intolerant

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