What’s a “sovereign citizen “?

Comments

• Crack0n7uesday@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Basically a bunch of people who claim to not be citizens of any nation and will therefore try to claim they essentially have diplomatic immunity no matter where they go.

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• ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  You know how lawyers shout “objection!” in court and it causes things to happen? Sovereign Citizens believe all laws work that way. If you find the right words, phrase, or document, you can bend the legal system to your will.

  It’s kind of like thinking the law works like Magic The Gathering. Sorry officer, but I counter your “diving with a suspended licence” attack with my “I’m travelling not driving” spell!

  I almost feel bad for them because in some ways the legal system is a game that can be bent to your will. It’s just that the best spells cost millions of dollars to cast.

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  • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    the legal system is a game that can be bent to your will

    Boom! This is kinda true. People encounter the legal system, get fucked, get off, or get by, and they see that words mean things in that system. I get where they’re coming from.

    • When I was in my 20s I fucked around a bit, nothing heinous, but found there’s a difference in pleading nolo contendere and not guilty.

    • My lawyer tore shit up in my child custody case. Because he knew the law, and how the game is played, we kicked my ex-wife’s ass all over the room. (She was also hilariously wrong in nearly everything she did to us. Because she had legal opinions and not facts.)

    • Little off topic, but for the sovereign angle, Americans can tell their bank to get fucked on NSF charges. It’s a phone call, and it’s backed by law.

    • I got evicted by a foul and senile landlord in the day. All on me because I couldn’t produce the signed agreement, he “lost” his copy, claimed it never existed.

    • I got fucked out of my apartment because my roommate had the lease changed without my knowledge. Should have fought that one.

    (These items are long in the past, I’m not so ignorant now. But I’m still ignorant!)

    You learn these things as you navigate the world, and for these dumbassess, it seems like magic. Saying the right words works in many cases! Or better yet, not saying a damn thing. Been fucked on that one a time or three!

    It’s a simple-minded view of the world. What kills me is that their non-stop failures don’t get them to reconsider their actions. I know, they’re told they didn’t say the words or return the coupon or whatever the fuck, but they just keep coming back for more ass kicking?! Fuck me. I know when I’m down. I’ll give up.

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• BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  They are people who have fallen for and/or are grifting for a deeply unhinged conspiracy theory that national laws don’t apply to them if they do some certain set of pseudo legal things. What exactly those things are, as well as what laws don’t apply to them,vary widely, but are usually centered around driver’s licenses and car registration, tax evasion and not paying child support.

  Past that it’s hard to explain what their beliefs are because it is so vague and ever changing.

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• Boozilla@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  They think their individual rights and freedumbs mean laws don’t apply to them.

  Some of their grievances are true. The government is often guilty of overreach and trampling on individual rights (like Roe v Wade being overturned, declaring corporate money to be free speech, cops murdering people, cracking down on protests, etc).

  However, sovereign citizens think they can use “constitutional logic” to basically do whatever they want. They often find themselves sitting in a cell with Pikachu face, asking for a real lawyer’s help.

  Perhaps the most egregious (or successful, depending on your point of view) example would be constitutional sheriffs.

  en.wikipedia.org/…/Constitutional_Sheriffs_and_Pe…

  In my opinion, they are basically domestic terrorists, or at least adjacent to that. The 3-letter federal agencies keep a close eye on these types of people.

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  • tigerjerusalem@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Perhaps the most egregious (or successful, depending on your point of view) example would be constitutional sheriffs.

    Shit, this went from harmless nutcases to completely terrifying.

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    • Boozilla@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Sorry, I wasn’t trying to fear monger. We do live in “interesting” times.

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• Pratai@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Ignorant losers that are trying to grift their way through life tho king they’ve found loopholes that allow them to circumvent the laws that normal people follow.

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• philo@discuss.online ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  People who…

  A - Are wastes of oxygen. B - Should ask for refunds for any tuition they ever paid cause they never learned anything. C - Almost always drive travel without a license or registration. D - All of the above.

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• Nomecks@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  If you want a well written break down of them, a Canadian judge wrote a fantastic article:

  learningcentre.lawsociety.ab.ca/mod/…/view.php?id…

  “Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument litigants”

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• sxan@midwest.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Assholes who appropriated the word “sovereign” and ruined it ior the rest of us. Like, how cryptocurrency ruined “crypto” and blockchain - you can’t mention either without getting some kneejerk reaction about mining farms.

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• Clav64@lemmy.ml ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  There’s a belief that (I’m going to heavily paraphrase/over simplify here) when you’re born, there are two versions of you … The ‘corporation’, and the ‘real’ you.

  Any document issued by the government i.e. birthday certificates, social security etc is against the corporate version of you. And as a ‘real’ person, you are not part of a system you didn’t consent to.

  So when you get pulled over for speeding, it was your real self who was driving, not the corporation, and only the corporate self is beholden to the law. This same idea is applied to taxes…

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• roertel@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’m so glad you asked. I had improperly assumed.it was referring to native or indigenous peoples from tribal land. I couldn’t figure out why all the hate.

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• jkrtn@lemmy.ml ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s if you want to play Dungeons and Dragons IRL: you can be a wizard class by choosing specific colors of ink as spell components and invoking the power of “maritime law” to bend the world to your bidding.

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• Blackmist@feddit.uk ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  A nutcase.

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