You don’t go into modding for the money. It’s like making a non profit for the money. That’s why they’re getting backlash, they’re asking money where money’s not supposed to be involved.
Comment on Starfield players pirate the DLSS mod after the developer locks it behind paywall
IHeartBadCode@kbin.social 9 months ago
Out of this whole thing, I just want to say something about this.
Some players' reactions to the paywall have been unfavorable; they think that charging for mods is unethical and goes against the spirit of community modification
Everyone needs to make bread. Someone asking for money from their mod or map or whatever isn’t against any spirit. It’s just a human being asking to make bread. Now some don’t agree with the price tag and that’s fine.
But we all need to recognize humans asking for some dough for their hard work is in the spirit of existing. Some folk do it for free just for the feelings and we love ‘em for it. But those asking for some cash are no different.
This world is already full of dog eat dog. Let’s not hate on someone just trying to get through it. You don’t have to pay the ask, but let’s not go making enemies just cause we don’t agree on that number on the price tag.
mojo@lemm.ee 9 months ago
ShittyRedditWasBetter@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This is such a shitty attitude 🤣
God forbid we pay for a fucking cup of coffee because that person should want to work for free. This is the same bullshit as “work hard play hard” and “we are family here”. Might as well start telling modders it’s not about the pay, it’s the people and experience we’re paying you in. Rent what’s that?
mojo@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Yes, again you don’t mod for the money. If you’re looking for that, you can create your own software. Other people in this thread made other good points, and this guy was trying to make a dlss mod subscription based, so fuck that guy. It’s literally better if the mod doesn’t exist in that case. Like I said with my analogy, it’s like trying to create a non-profit for the profit. There’s a million other avenues available to them if they want money. Especially because they are basing their work off of other’s work whom are not getting paid, yet they are?
Lols@lemm.ee 9 months ago
it’s like theyre making a non profit for the money, except the without the making a non profit part
Kirkkh@lemm.ee 9 months ago
There are tons of paid mods for lots of games. Me thinking it’s just Bethesda fans
mojo@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Like what
Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The history of monetization and mods is a pretty complex one.
Back in the UT/Quake 3 era, it was not at all uncommon to pay someone to make a skin or model for you. Those would be put online “for free”, but the Influencers of the era (clan folk and prolific forum posters) would get the warm and fuzzies from knowing there was a 420_JustBlazeIt_696969 skin for the nali warcow.
The first time I can really think of there being actual premium content you had to pay for was Neverwinter Nights and, to a lesser extent, The Sims. Yeah, there were the titties and fucking mods and the better ones were behind paywalls. But NWN in particular had a few cases where prolific modders might want some cash to give you access to their really cool campaigns. And Atari/Bioware took advantage of that for premium mods (although, I don’t think any community mods ever got an official release? I know AL3 or AL4 was supposed to be but ended up getting released for free when the program ended).
But that was arguably the beginning of the end for the golden age of mods. Because a year or two later we had Unreal Tournament 2003/4 and the “Make Something Unreal” contest. Which was a competition held by epic where the best mods in different categories would get huge cash prizes and games like Red Orchestra actually came out of this. And… it almost instantly killed the modding community. Sure we got Chaos UT2k4 and a few others, but basically every large modding effort was part of this contest rather than “for fun”.
And… the reality is that the contest and atari’s half ass efforts were pointless. Because the reality is that, by the early 2000s, modding was of comparable difficulty to making a game from scratch. And tools kept getting better (UT became The Unreal Engine, if that is not obvious) and between UE and Unity it was a lot easier for people to just make their dream games and sell them rather than make a mod for someone else’s game.
The Bethesda games side was a lot more gradual. There wasn’t a massive exodus of modders but… the number of quality quest mods for Morrowind versus Oblivion and Skyrim very much shows that the particularly talented folk were off doing other stuff. And a lot of the old hats realize this. A mod list for Morrowind might have been hundreds of quests. A mod list for Skyrim is bugfixes, a few UI/UX fixes, a graphics mod or two, and… that is it. Like, you still get the occasional magnum opus. But… yeah.
So you get this push back over the idea of modding “dying” even more. Because people aren’t going to put in hundreds of hours of work to give something away when they can do the same work and get paid for it. But… that also means they aren’t putting in 10 hours of work to make a hilariously bad map that simulates what it is like to have Comcast internet.
And then you just have the children who throw a temper tantrum the moment they are deprived of something they want.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 9 months ago
a mod list for Skyrim is bugfixes, a few UI/UX fixes, a graphics mod or two, and… that is it.
You’re fucking with us, right? RIGHT?? 😂
CaptainEffort@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Wtf are you talking about, Skyrim has dozens of amazing quest mods, and hundreds of quest mods overall.
It has major gameplay overhauls, it has custom skeletons for animation, it literally has mods that rework the animation system entirely,
There are mods that add new continents ffs, what’re you talking about? One of the quest mods was so good it literally got turned into its own game.
Callie@pawb.social 9 months ago
I didn’t hear about the quest mod getting its own game, what’s it called?
CaptainEffort@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
The Forgotten City
Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever@lemmy.world 9 months ago
they are likely referring to The Forgotten City. Which is more than a bit more complicated than “one of the quest mods was so good it literally got turned into its own game” but is close enough to not matter.
it is also a case of traditional modding dying out in favor of people just making their own games. But that person seemed confused and angry as is because I didn’t consult them before making a generalization so let’s cut them some slack.
FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org 9 months ago
Remember, the patreon sub is $5/MONTH. This means if you buy 1 month at $5 to download the mod, and the author “conveniently” comes out with an update one month later, you need to subscibe for another $5. So basically it’s a fucking subscription for a god damn dlss 3 mod. You know the author is milking this bullshit to keep subscibers and keep his income flowing. Marty mcfly does the same fucking dogshit with his stupid ass RTGI reshade shaders. Fuck that shit. Those people can go get fucked.
wahming@monyet.cc 9 months ago
Ultimately, the guy is being upfront with his pricing and what he’s asking for. What’s the reason to hate on him? Either it’s worth it at that price or it’s not.
FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org 9 months ago
So you’re invalidating the feeling of being upset when something that used to be free (modding games) is no longer free. You’re also justifying paying a subsciption on top of a fucking $70 game. Do you rip up a $5 bill every time you take a shit? Try it out. You may enjoy it.
wahming@monyet.cc 9 months ago
No, I’d just choose not to use it and move on. Not act like an entitled brat
Lols@lemm.ee 9 months ago
they cant invalidate the feeling of being upset when something that used to be free (modding games) is no longer free
modding games is still free, so your feeling of being upset wasnt valid in the first place
MeatsOfRage@lemmy.world 9 months ago
For real. You want it for free? Cool go ahead and make the mod yourself. All the tools are there. Wait, you don’t want to spend your time learning to code? You don’t want to spend your time learning modding tools. Our time is our most finite resource and you get mad when someone asks for something in return for theirs? People are just up their own asses.
Mini_Moonpie@startrek.website 9 months ago
I am not disagreeing with the premise that it’s fair for someone to be paid for their work. However, during the Skyrim paid mod controversy (on Steam), I learned that there a lot of situations where having paid mods did hurt the modding community and created ethical concerns.
I would also point out that it wasn’t just greedy players that complained about paid mods - a lot of modders thought it went against the spirit of modding because of how it harmed collaboration in the community. Suddenly, they couldn’t trust that others would not steal their work or profit from it unfairly. And, that seems like a reasonable take to me, given all the abuses that modders claimed happened in the short time that paid modding was a thing for Skyrim on Steam.
Katana314@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It feels like the issue is that it was offering the convenience of payment to mods, but not really thinking about the necessary friction of assuring licenses/legality/etc. All of that CAN, of course, be an issue for cheap Unity games too. I remember back when Steam Greenlight started, they required each game to donate $100 to charity to even be considered, basically placing a bet of assurance that it wasn’t a stolen asset flip (I don’t know if they still do that).
Mini_Moonpie@startrek.website 9 months ago
I think you’re exactly right - it is the combination of money + little oversight that is the big problem. Warframe seems to do a good job with tennogen but they limit it to only cosmetic mods and seem to be pretty restrictive about what they accept into their store. I don’t see how you could have good oversight for a game with as many mods as something like Skyrim has.
Katana314@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s not “oversight”, but if a modder needs to create their own storefront and Paypal integration, and advertising through word of mouth and their own social contacts (as in this case it seems), then that’s going to offer a lot more scrutiny than a low-effort asset flipper presenting themselves anonymously through Steam’s given storefront.
Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I remember that discourse and am going to call shenanigans. None of that was new and a lot applies to actual software development
I am not saying any of these aren’t issues and I do think that adding monetized mods a decade in to the life cycle of a game was a mistake. But, like with most things, if The People are suddenly fixated on and caring about something they had outright mocked a few weeks prior… they still don’t care. They just see a way to be morally righteous while they get what they want.