Comment on Funny, those guys don't usually agree on that much
Neato@ttrpg.network 5 months agoIt has 2 common definitions:
You’re almost never going to hear the right-wing use #1. Authoritarian communists will use #2 as a catch-all for modern capitalism.
It’s extremely frustrating hearing this repeated so often here.
It’s fine if this is the colloquial definition you’re used to hearing and using, but this is certainly not the way it’s used outside of American politics and pretending like it’s the only use comes off as both ill-informed and condescending.
When used derisively from the left, rest assured it is not referring to either of your adopted generalizations but a very specific ideology.
ok, so among English speaking countries, how is it more often used?
how is it more often used?
Look up liberalism for liberals.
I wasn’t aware Americans made up their own meaning. Now I understand why upvoted comments mentioning “liberal values” receive a flurry of downvotes while I’m asleep, Americans have lost the meaning of another word, probably due to their media.
Though, just checking, the American dictionaries seem entirely correct still. Are you all confused?
Its the way the wealthy wamt the poor and middle class - undereducated and bombarded by agenda driven media.
The US propaganda machine is pretty damn effective domestically.
www.dictionary.com/browse/liberal
liberal 1
[ lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl ]
Phonetic (Standard) IPA adjective
Antonyms: reactionary
Like I said, it’s fine assuming your own definition if that’s the one most familiar to you, but that doesn’t mean you have to stubbornly double down on semantics when confronted with a competing definition. When used derisively from the left it is almost certainly being used in the original sense of the word as per John Locke
The definition I see most often used here in Lemmy is: Liberal - literally anybody who doesn’t have Xi Jinping’s cock alllllllll the way down their throat
Ok. But this meme says American Republican.
The meme also says ‘authoritarian communists’ but there are plenty of anarchists and socialists who use liberal as a disparagement.
Yeah, this meme was close to something, but I think OP doesn’t actually know much about politics.
pretending like it’s the only use comes off as both ill-informed and condescending.
That works both ways. Pretending the European usage of the word is the only use comes off just as ill-informed and condescending.
The people who are using liberal derisively are playing off the american liberal self-identity. They’re acknowledging both definitions in the jab.
I’m sorry but this is just flat out wrong in the way that only an American can be wrong
Thanks for your input. I learned a lot.
Liberalism has never meant “leftism in general.” It has always been an ideology supporting the individual via private property rights. Neoliberalism is the modern form of it.
Liberalism was considered left when feudalism was right, but liberalism has never meant leftism.
lugal@sopuli.xyz 5 months ago
The US is such a right wing country that liberals are the mainstream left. In Europe, liberals are centrists and they aren’t further to the right than American libs.
Neato@ttrpg.network 5 months ago
The meme says “American Republicans” so I thought we were considering this from an American pov. Definitions are going to change going to other countries and doubly so when talking about politics.
archomrade@midwest.social 5 months ago
It isn’t just about it meaning something else when ‘going to another country’. ‘Liberal’ has an actual definition with a history.
I’m honestly kind of confused about american liberals digging their heals in on this definition when it has historically been taken to mean something they don’t seem to agree with anymore.
Cryophilia@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Because regardless pf history or whatever, the definition were giving you is how the 300 million Americans who actually use the term define liberal. Doesn’t matter what you or I think, if we want to have effective communication we need to use words as they are used. I really don’t feel like dying on that particular hill.
I made my stand with “literally”, I’m not wasting effort on holding fast to a Eurocentric definition of liberal.
CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
The word “awful” has an actual definition with a history too. That history starts with it meaning “full of awe”
www.etymonline.com/word/awful
Word usage and definitions change over time. If you know people use a word differently then you need to at least explain the definition you are using or you’re just going to confuse or alienate people who understand the word differently.
lugal@sopuli.xyz 5 months ago
But the definition doesn’t really change. Take universal healthcare. A liberal idea that’s considered common sense in Europe and left wing in the US. Obamacare would be something you expect from a center right European and a left American. Both are called liberal.
And if the meme was from an exclusively American pov, it wouldn’t specify “American Republicans”
FozzyOsbourne@lemm.ee 5 months ago
You’re correct, I specified “American republicans” to refer to the political party because everywhere else “republican” means anti-monarchist
sukhmel@programming.dev 5 months ago
Yeah, this is about as confusing as it gets, I feel like those labels rarely make much sense :(