I support Ukraine, but we have to limit what we send. We can’t send things that most likely would be captured, or that would put the United States at risk by depleting our stockpiles. It isn’t our war to fight.
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realcaseyrollins 5 months ago
As a conservative myself, NYP and Fox News messaging doesn't represent the true values or positions of the GOP base.
While most Republican politicians support continuing to fund Ukraine with no end, most Republicans are at most cautious of that idea, if not opposed to it altogether. There's a big reason why the GOP presidential candidates were trying so hard to convince the audience that funding the war is a good idea.
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
It isn’t our war to fight? Do you have idea what happens if Ukraine loses, and Putin absorbs that territory? Don’t suffer Trump’s lies, we absolutely do need NATO.
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 5 months ago
If Ukraine falls, as an American how does it change my life? It doesn’t. What treaties do we have with Ukraine for defense? Zero.
And who mentioned nato? Ukraine isn’t a member of nato
Mastengwe@lemm.ee 5 months ago
And you’ve been allowed to be a moderator?
intensely_human@lemm.ee 5 months ago
If Ukraine falls, it makes Russia more likely to invade other places, and it makes China more likely to invade Taiwan.
We can either end this war now by punishing Russia enormously, or the war grows to become WW3.
sxan@midwest.social 5 months ago
Eh. The US has twice proven that it can ramp up war production enough to go from essentially no war capacity to overwhelming force very quickly. Weapons manufacturers are salivating at the chance to satisfy wartime demand. And who are we holding back in fear of? China? If we get into a tangle with China, weapons reserves are going to be the least of our concerns. Russia? Ukraine - tiny little Ukraine - is showing that the mighty Russian war machine is mostly façade over rusting or entirely missing parts. The only threat Russia presents the US right now is nuclear - and weapon stockpiles aren’t going to protect against that.
So who are we afraid of? Canada? Honestly, I think Canada is the real threat; I think they’ve been putting on a friendly face and biding their time, waiting until we’ve given all of our ordinance in support of another country, and then they’ll sweep in and take back Old Fort Niagara, Youngstown, and Buffalo, and then they’ll have all the tourists mwahahaha!
This “holding in reserve” is a cop-out. We’re giving Ukraine stock that was due to be rotated out for newer stuff anyway; they aren’t getting latest-gen anything, and if the US goes into any conflict and burns through enough latest-gen munitions and has to reach into old stockpiles, I think we’re in for a rough ride no matter what.
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Are you talking about ww1 and Ww2? Those were very different times.
they aren’t getting latest-gen anything
This is the easiest way to tell someone never served or has any military experience.
The javelin, patriot, 155mm, stinger, mlrs rockets, etc are all current issue. Isn’t the exact same thing we fight with. It’s the latest generation of fighting weapons.
sxan@midwest.social 5 months ago
Oh, yeah? Your meter is completely off, then.
Ordinance gets replaced on the regular. A lot of it gets used during training. When I was in, once a year we’d go to the range and get issued a ton of everything: cans of ammo, grenades of all sorts (but mostly smoke, and no CS, and no LAWs). We’d be there most of the day. More than once Saw gunners from our platoon would would melt barrels trying to go through all the ammo we were issued. One time, there was still a dead tree standing down range and my buddy and I spent about an hour trying to cut it down by shooting it with our M16s. Even the TOW gunners were there doing their thing, and they were usually pretty stingy with the TOWs. I think they left out the CS and LAWs because someone in command decided that was just a little too risky; but otherwise they have us a ton of everything. Like, we would be there all day, trying to find things to shoot at from our trench.
There was no objective to these exercises except to burn ammo. There were no targets except some rusted out old trucks, like maybe deuce & halfs? They were fairly unrecognizable by the time we saw them. Some long-dead tree trunks. Now that I’ve spent some decades in corporate US, what it reminded me must of was departments wildly trying to spend the rest of their budgets before year’s end.
It was glorious; just sending destruction downrange with nobody shooting back. Maybe there was some hidden purpose, but there orders were: “here’s ammo. Shoot it all.”
SaintWacko@midwest.social 5 months ago
And as we all know, the United States has never involved itself in other nations’ wars
sj_zero@social.fbxl.net 5 months ago
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Everyone has said they would shut down Gitmo, and then they do not.
Gitmo served a purpose in the early days of the war and quickly lost that purpose. It should have been shutdown a long time ago.
sxan@midwest.social 5 months ago
I don’t think I agree with you about Gitmo ever serving a purpose. It was entirely outside of Geneva Conventions and served as a secure prison for anyone deemed an enemy of the state, including US citizens. Torture was regularly practiced and there was no oversight; it was an oubliette into which people disappeared for years, with no representation or recourse. Gitmo was everything the US should stand against, when we consider our highest ideals and morals.
The US has plenty of blood on its hands, but Gitmo was out in the open; there was no subtlety, it wasn’t a “dark secret.” The only thing it accomplished was to prove that you can scare the current American public enough that they’ll accept nearly anything, including stuff that would have outraged the WWII US public.
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Gitmo had nothing to do with Geneva. It dealt with US law. If we brought them back to our soil, they’d have full protections under the constitution.
Gitmo was supposed to be a stop gap while we figured out what that meant.
I was there for about six months. Obviously can’t get into details but it needs to be shutdown. It’s lived long past its purpose. The things that went on there are a black eye to our country.
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
This season of the Serial podcast is about GitMo and it’s very interesting. Would recommend.
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 5 months ago
I may to check that one out.
What disappoints me is both parties have lost interest in closing gitmo
realcaseyrollins 5 months ago
Well, I don't know. Democrats are more vocal about it for sure, but that's just because many of them hate either Jews or Israel. Democrats seem to love Ukraine, and would like to keep funding them, while Republicans seem to not care about them at all.
sj_zero@social.fbxl.net 5 months ago