Comment on Context is for people that read US news
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks agoOk, after some closer look, it could resemble the SS “Mützenabzeichen”, but it could also just be a generic skull.
BTW, the British atme are no nazis are they? www.army.mod.uk/…/royal-lancers/
I can not say what exactly that tattoo was there is no clear image I found, so I can not jump to conclusions in any direction.
The British symbol looks nothing like a totenkopf, the tattoo looks exactly like a totenkopf, 1-to-1 on every detail, no matter how much people try to pretend otherwise.
If you have an image that shows that much detail, please provide it. I really want to see it. I have not seen any. I see some. Black outlines that’s all.
And from what I can see, the eyes would be different than on the SS version, and details in the bones are also not visible.
Still, it could be like you said the exact version. I can not tell.
And of course does the UK skull not look like this. But: skull on bone is a common symbol. Look for the example at this pre-nazi Symbol.
If we don’t question the given facts, and form our own opinion, we are not better then the real Nazis.
Discrediting political opponents was fire part of their playbook.
(I am a German anitfaschist, breaking Nazi bones since 2000, and I am not here to defend anyone, just to animate independent thinking)
But: skull on bone is a common symbol. Look for the example at this pre-nazi Symbol.
First off, that symbol is less similar to the tattoo than then totenkomf (that it 100% is). Second, you could also pull up images of swastikas that predate the Nazis. Should I also suspend judgement if I see someone with a swastika tattooed on their chest?
If we don’t question the given facts, and form our own opinion, we are not better then the real Nazis.
This is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say in this context. I’m seeing a picture that is, very clearly and obviously, a totenkomf, a Nazi symbol. And all I’m doing is calling it a Nazi symbol. And somehow, describing the thing that’s right in front of my eyes makes me “no better than a Nazi.”
I don’t think it’s a totenkopf because I was told it was by some influence campaign to discredit a politician, I know it’s a totenkopf because I have eyes.
I mean, come on! “The Nazis discredited their opponents too.” Ok then, should I not consider Trump discredited, for fear of being like a Nazi? Sure, my eyes have seen him palling around with Jeffery Epstein, but there’s any number of excuses people use, if they really want to. I think there was one narrative that he was just infiltrating the secret pedophile ring to take it down from the inside.
The reality is that there’s this enormous pushback whenever anyone tries to hold any politician to any standard whatsoever. It’s like some kind of internalized authoritarianism. It’s “boys will be boys” dialed up to 11.
I can say with 100% certainty based on the pictures presented that that was a totenkomf. Hell, if it wasn’t, why didn’t he provide pictures to prove otherwise? But no matter what evidence is presented, it’s always possible to just demand high and higher standards of proof to protect politicians from any scrutiny.
That’s not a pre-nazi symbol that’s a proto-nazi symbol…
He doesn’t even deny it though?? He confirmed it was a totenkopf in interviews with cenk uygur for example. Good god, the amount of proof you all require to confirm that the tattoo of a guy defending people getting SS doppelrune tattoos, goes on murder spree’s in west asia and sexually assaults women matches the SS Totenkopf just to confirm that what? He actually is a piece of shit??
I do not need nothing.
Why should I care? I want to understand, that’s all. Maybe just read my other comments…
And, maybe you should read the fucking comments of him defending the SS dudes. He is not a nazi. He is just as stupid as one.
On the rape, no idea. Of course, believe women and investigate, but still, assumption of innocence holds.
But after all, America vote a class of Nazis and Neop Babies into power. A convicted rapist, fraud and openly corrupt man.
But hey, this dude is your biggest problem ATM?
Yeah. Nobody can help America anymore. You are lost
read the fucking comments of him defending the SS dudes. He is not a nazi.
read this again but slowly…
On the rape, no idea. Of course, believe women and investigate, but still, assumption of innocence holds.
This not a courtroom?? The guy is running for office?? He should meet higher criteria, like e.g. not “defending the SS dudes”?? Or carelessly lobbing grenades into dense population areas?? Or raping women?? What the fuck??
Thanks a lot!
irish_link@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The issue with this kind of stuff is history. As a 40 you’re old American, whose grandfather served in World War II, I had no idea what that tattoo meant before this whole scandal.
The only symbolism we ever went over in school was the flag and swastika. I believe they thought dumb kids would mimic the iconography to look edgy.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Yeah, I keep saying this but idiots keep telling me I must have been a dumbass not to recognize it. I told them to show me a single screenshot of this symbol appearing in any media that depicts nazis or WWII and they couldn’t provide one, they just kept deflecting and calling me a dumbass.
Objection@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
It’s on every SS uniform
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
It’s even specifically mentioned in the “are we the baddies” video. They’re wearing it too.
Image
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Yes, we all see so many of those on a day-to-day basis, and photos from the time are such high-def it’s astounding that anyone could miss it!
vapeloki@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf_(Symbol)#/media/D…
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Oh great, you’ve proven that there’s a wikipedia article for it. This is proof that anyone who hasn’t already stumbled upon it by chance is clearly a willfully ignorant nazi! /s
The only reason you’re even linking it now is because we’re already discussing it. My whole point is that hardly anybody knew what this symbol was prior to the discussion around Platner.
Now find a movie, TV show, book, comic, or video game that depicts that symbol on a nazi. Because that’s what I meant from the start and you know it.
irish_link@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I fully admit I am not the smartest or best student of history. However I recall no lessons un symbolism in any history class other than ancient Egypt and Neolithic era or late Stone Age.
Make not mistake I am not supporting any hatred other than towards Nazis. However when I first saw the image I honestly thought it was from Warhammer or something.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Yeah, I thought it looked tacky and stupid. I wouldn’t have gotten it myself. But I also didn’t know it was a nazi symbol until I read about it in the context of platner. Never would have guessed.
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I love how the main defense is “bro we all are so ignorant about history that we don’t know one of the most recognizable symbols of the nazis, but trust, we can definitely tell this guy isn’t one”
irish_link@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think you’re missing my point. And YES, I just told you it wasn’t part of my history lessons. Are you based in the U.S.? If so, eastern, western, north, south, midwest? They all have different types of history being taught in school. For example, in the southeast there was a much bigger unit on trail of tears than in the Midwest. Also I bet if I asked you the name of the fertility statue from the Paleolithic you wouldn’t know it because it wasn’t part of your history lessons. Clearly that version of the totenkopf image was part of your history lessons or part of your history.
If you asked me what skull a bones together mean I would have said pirates and I would have been right because that’s the version of totenkopf I know. As I have now done a quick read on Wikipedia I must disagree with you about it be one of the most recognized symbols. How can it be one of the more recognized symbols if the main use was in concentration camps. They weren’t flying it all over or even putting it on all the uniforms. So yes, please accept that many people don’t know it.
Also no I didn’t say “ohh no this guy is totally not a nazi” but by all means put words in people’s mouth and ignore what they’re saying as it seems you do constantly. What I’m saying is most people I know, don’t know that symbol and thus can readily believe he didn’t know either. Thus the issue with pointing to it and saying “see this guys a nazi” is history lessons. If you’re going to point to shit, point to his words and comments not a tattoo.
Am I going to go dive into this guys Reddit history and learn about him, no. I will not be voting for him and I won’t be voting for his opponent. Not my area and thus I don’t need to go learn all the shit about him.
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
The bolded statement is what I take issue with. I don’t care that you personally didn’t know what the SS Totenkopf looked like. But you do now, and if you now see it tattooed on some guys chest wouldn’t that make you highly suspicious of them? Or would you think “nah they probably don’t know either”?
I think that this generalisation of “I didn’t know, so they didn’t either” is really dangerous and gives nazi’s even more plausible deniability to switch to openly fascist symbolism. I’m sorry for being so rude, and it seems like it was misdirected at you, but the amount of people that are willing to look past all these red flags (of which the Totenkopftattoo is but one) got me kind of spiraling…
It’s so well recognised that Mitchell & Webb made a comedic sketch about that skull on the radio. They later made it into a TV sketch that became even more famous as the “Hans, are we the baddies?” meme. It’s up there with the Swastika, SS runes and Sonnenrad as far as nazi symbols go.