is there a better app?
iâm not really in a situation where i can live among natives until i have the basics down
real in-person courses are also nothing i wanna do right now đ
Comment on That escalated quickly đŹ
bdonvr@thelemmy.club âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
DuoLingo isnât really that great for learning languages anyway
catharso@discuss.tchncs.de âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
bdonvr@thelemmy.club âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
What language are you learning?
catharso@discuss.tchncs.de âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
tĂŒrkish, just for fun little interactions with my döner-guy đ„đ
9point6@lemmy.world âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
I love everything about this
And now I want a Berlin kebab
bdonvr@thelemmy.club âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
See my other comment: thelemmy.club/comment/6489647
For Turkish unfortunately there isnât a lot of beginner resources. But some are trying to build some currently. comprehensibleinputwiki.org/wiki/Turkish
But if itâs just for fun, and you donât seriously expect to reach fluidity, I think Duo is probably not bad for that. And thatâs not a bad thing, learning a language is a huge commitment. If you want more, youâd need someone willing to go one on one with you or you could continue with more traditional methods until you reach the point of being able to follow at least shows for small children like Peppa Pig and eventually onto actually interesting stuff.
Scraft161@iusearchlinux.fyi âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
The best course of action is to consume as much content in the target language as possible, tv shows, music, YouTube videos⊠Your brain will eventually pick up on certain parts of the language naturally. Also the best thing you can do is to not force yourself to speak or write in that language until you are comfortable doing so (this is one of the biggest things doulingo does wrong).
I can attest to this method working as I went from barely knowing a couple of English words to speaking it in about 4 months (you could probably do less if you stick to what I outlined above). To back up this method I suggest you look at antimoon which is written by people who have used this to learn English as well.
justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
Exactly this worked best for me back in the day ;) Iâm German and while we have some mandatory English classes, theyâre âŠwell ⊠not good. Blunt, boring, 1:1 translations of German sentences, and at least the teacher I had first also had a VERY thick German accent, pronouncing stuff WAY too harsh (âZis is nott how yoo shoold zound when zpeeking inglish for forks zake!â) so other than learning a few basics, the lessons werenât at all useful to me.
âŠbut Iâve been an avid fan of the Zelda franchise even back then so I decided to play Ocarina of Time in English after a first German playthrough. Barely understood the dialogue at first, started to recognize certain keywords after a few days, and once I was halfway through the game my brain kinda switched to âEnglish modeâ and I actually learned words and grammar in a natural way instead of trying to force myself to understand what the hell a âsingular past tense adverbâ is.
Long story short, school tried to teach me how to translate German thoughts into English sentences before speaking them out loud. Games, movies, books and music taught me to THINK in English so I wouldnât need to translate my thoughts first.
The same way Iâm currently trying to learn Spanish by the way, which already works way better than any classes ever did.
Scraft161@iusearchlinux.fyi âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
Exactly this worked best for me back in the day
Not just you, your brain is wired to pick up language, how did you learn your first one?
Iâm German and while we have some mandatory English classes, theyâre âŠwell ⊠not good.
I can attest that English classes here arenât great either (although most people here do speak English as a second or third language)
and at least the teacher I had first also had a VERY thick German accent
This is a known side effect of premature output (writing/speaking before you feel comfortable doing so), you donât just listen to whatâs around you, you primarily listen to yourself and pronunciation differs between languages, this premature output becomes toxic input for your brain which then uses that from then on (you can try and get rid of it; but it is really hard to do)
once I was halfway through the game my brain kinda switched to âEnglish modeâ and I actually learned words and grammar in a natural way instead of trying to force myself to understand what the hell a âsingular past tense adverbâ is.
Yup, thatâs natural understanding for you. When you speak a language you donât care about the rules; you should instinctively know them.
As for my issue with Duolingo: it ignores the amount of time it takes to properly acquire a language, if I were to split up all the time I spent watching english youtube into 5 minute chunks itâd take me well over 15 years (and thatâs just accounting for the initial 4 month span; Iâve learned more things after as I naturally used the language). Combine that with the fact it throws established research on this topic to the wayside to push the school-based one which we know goes against the natural way in which we learn. I found a great blog post online about this, while it mostly revolves around learning Japanese; the core principles apply to learning pretty much any language. The beginning of the post does sum the entire thing up pretty well though:
We do not recommend âlanguage learningâ apps like Duolingo, Lingodeer, Babbel, and others due to the fact that their methodology conflicts with AJATTâs principles of immersion learning. Such apps do not actually help you with anything. There are no success stories. On the other hand, AJATTers typically reach fluency in just 18 months. The apps prevent you from reading interesting content in your target language, such as manga. And they make you more miserable in the end.
There are some really good parts in that blog that apply to any language; but a lot of it is geared towards Japanese specifically.
tjtherealbest@lemmy.world âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
For me, Duolingo plus middle school and highschool spanish has helped me tremendously. It does get repetitive and daunting at points but thatâs honestly a good thing as it reinforces and reminds you of certain things you may forget or get wrong.
The gamification of it actually helped me push harder than i would have thought being competitive for the weekly rankings as well as with my ADHD.
Of course Iâm still not amazing at spanish but I can hold a very simple conversation, follow along with conversations people are speaking and pick up on context, speak to spanish speakers where they compliment it and say itâs perfect, and I can read it and write it very well.
It could very well just be me and my dedication to it but with a 61 day streak and at minimum of 15 minutes a day while using a journal to write down any and everything I can and practicing Spanish at work, while watching spanish cartoons, I would say Duolingo has been absolutely worth it for me
angrystego@lemmy.world âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
Except it works, Iâve seen people learn a language with it to the point theyâre capable of quite good communication in about 2 years.
meliaesc@lemmy.world âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
null@slrpnk.net âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
Based on what?
A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
Is useful to not get rusty.
Signtist@lemm.ee âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
Iâve been using it for a couple of weeks now, and Iâve absolutely loved it. Iâve tried learning Japanese many times in my life, but this if the first time where I feel like Iâm really beginning to understand it. Iâm using the pro version, though, so maybe itâs less annoying than the free version.
Lyre@lemmy.ca âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
This is kind of the hot take going around right now but honestly duo has a lot of advantages. Huge selection of languages, gameified lessons, and the app is really streamlined and responsive.
Im not sure if its better or worse for learning than other apps, but i suspect âlearningâ a language has a lot more to do with personal drive and dedication than whatever app you chose to learn with
bdonvr@thelemmy.club âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
I mean yes a ton of it has to do with motivation, but the âgamificationâ is hugely overstated. It is incredibly, unbearably, repetitive and bland. Most people start with a lot of desire and determination, see little result for the time they put in, get bored of the same three formats of questions, then quit or just do the absolute bare minimum to keep their streak for a while before eventually missing that. The way they present the questions makes it so easy to guess that you hardly have to think a lot of times. The larger courses are so dauntingly long that once you realize how much time youâre going to have to spend selecting words from a bank, clicking the corresponding icon, or typing what you hear.
Iâve tried many times. Many people Iâve known have been through the same cycle. I donât think Iâve seen it work.
This time around I wanted to learn Spanish, and tried the Comprehensible Input method. Man, for me at least, it has worked so so much better that itâs not even comparable. In terms of progress, fun, and motivation itâs been great for me. It basically boils down to listening to a ton of the language, but at a level you can at least follow along even if you donât know every word. You start with really simple stuff with lots of visual aids, hand gestures, repetition. After a while you move on to content with a little less aids, and shows for young children, etc. No translation or teaching of grammar.
Iâve been at it for about four months and have listened to over 300 hours of content in Spanish. The beginning is absolutely a slog still because at that level you canât understand much thatâs actually interesting, but the moment you get to the point that you can follow some simpler dubbed content and easier stuff like travel/lifestyle vlogs on YouTube it becomes ridiculously easy. You become more focused on the CONTENT than the language. Reading comes later when youâve really got the sounds of the language ingrained in your brain, so you donât practice/reinforce bad pronunciation as you read.
Admittedly though, in most languages you will find it incredibly hard to find content for the very beginner level like this. Spanish has Dreaming Spanish which is a godsend, English has plenty of resources. Perhaps for most languages youâll have to use more traditional methods to work your way up to the point that you can understand. Or have a patient one on one teacher (friend) that can do whatâs called âcrosstalkâ in which you speak your language to them, and they speak to you in the language youâre learning. (With as much visual aid as necessary for your level). Thereâs been effort to create more beginner content for languages other than Spanish, but I donât think anything has touched the library of content Dreaming Spanish has yet.
At this point, I can follow most day to day conversations if they donât stray into odd topics. I can watch dubbed shows for kids/young adults (just finished Avatar: The Last Airbender) and follow enough to be more than enjoyable. News and simpler unscripted content is no issue as well. Native media, especially scripted media, is still too hard. I notice I struggle far less with abstract things other learners seem to have problems with like âser vs estarâ, âpor vs paraâ, etc. One just feels more right in whatever situation but I couldnât tell you why. For only four months self-directed learning for a few hours a day I think thatâs pretty incredible. I can tell week by week that Iâm improving.
For a more thorough explanation check out this playlist (turn on subtitles itâs in Spanish.) youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlpPf-YgbU7GrtxQ9yde-JâŠ
angrystego@lemmy.world âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
I guess there are different kinds of people and for some, Duo works, while for others it doesnât. I still think itâs a great tool
Sweetpeaches69@lemmy.world âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
Duolingo has helped me get to a very learned point.
Demdaru@lemmy.world âš11â© âšmonthsâ© ago
Learned english through games (slept through actual school) and trying to understand torrent sites. Can affirm a lot is tied to what motivates you. Heh.