Comment on The Projected Truth

• lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I doubt you’ve come across someone who claims that all truth is subjective all the time in all scenarios.

  I wish I could say I’ve never came across this sort of muppet. But… *sigh*

  The example you give isn’t an example of subjective truth, it’s an example of wilful/conscious control of reality, which isn’t the same thing.

  Wilful control of reality in this case requires truth to be subjective; and conversely, if truth is subjective you can control reality. You’re right they aren’t the same thing, but they’re clearly tied.

  Someone on earth vs someone on the ISS have different gravitational experiences for instance.

  The experience is different because the person in the ISS is simply not close enough to Earth to be subjected to Earth’s gravity, in any practical amount. But that doesn’t mean gravity stopped existing for them.

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  • MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Someone on earth vs someone on the ISS have different gravitational experiences for instance.

    The experience is different because the person in the ISS is simply not close enough to Earth to be subjected to Earth’s gravity, in any practical amount. But that doesn’t mean gravity stopped existing for them.

    Ooh, time for science pedantry! The ISS is plenty close enough to Earth to experience almost the same gravity from the planet as on its surface, which is why it has to be orbiting at such speed - falling sideways fast enough and at the right angle so as not to come crashing down!

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  • Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The experience is different because the person in the ISS is simply not close enough to Earth to be subjected to Earth’s gravity, in any practical amount.

    It sounds like someone still hasn’t played KSP! Play it! It’s great. You’ll learn a lot, and you’ll have fun doing it.

    Stuff doesn’t stay in orbit because there isn’t gravity. It stays there because it’s moving sideways while it’s falling down, so it doesn’t hit the thing it’s orbiting. Without gravity it’d be able to just sit in space wherever it wants. There wouldn’t be a geosyncronus orbit as all orbits would allow you to just sit above any location you want. A geosyncronus orbit is one that the amount it has to move sideways is, in degrees from the center of earth, the same amount the earth rotates.

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  • Grail@multiverse.soulism.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    the ISS is simply not close enough to Earth to be subjected to Earth’s gravity, in any practical amount

    Imagine being this convinced that one’s understanding of gravity is objective truth, while also being this wrong about how gravity works

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  • HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The experience is different because the person in the ISS is simply not close enough to Earth to be subjected to Earth’s gravity, in any practical amount. But that doesn’t mean gravity stopped existing for them

    sort of. they just keep falling and missing

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  • Zagorath@quokk.au ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Wilful control of reality in this case requires truth to be subjective

    Hmm, maybe. Others have covered this and it doesn’t quite seem perfectly true, but let’s let that slide.

    and conversely, if truth is subjective you can control reality

    No, that definitely doesn’t follow. If truth is subjective it doesn’t at all mean you can control it. It just means that what is true for you might be different from what is true for me. The reason that’s the case isn’t a part of that equation.

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  • Senal@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I wish I could say I’ve never came across this sort of muppet. But… *sigh*

    Yeah…

    Wilful control of reality in this case requires truth to be subjective; and conversely, if truth is subjective you can control reality. You’re right they aren’t the same thing, but they’re clearly tied.

    Not really…to any of that.

    There’s no reason gravity control requires a subjective truth.

    An unusual level of reality control could exist within an objectively truth based system. It would just have to adhere to the constraints.

    Perhaps you mean omnipotence? I’m not sure on that one either, but definitionally it usually implies complete control, im not sure if that’s within a fixed system or not.

    Reality control and subjectivity can be tied if an example ties them somehow, but it’s not a given.

    The experience is different because the person in the ISS is simply not close enough to Earth to be subjected to Earth’s gravity, in any practical amount. But that doesn’t mean gravity stopped existing for them.

    Yep, that’s why I went with gravitational experience instead of one having gravity and the other not.

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    • lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      There’s no reason gravity control requires a subjective truth.

      In this case, it does.

      Let me put it this way: is the statement “there’s a phenomenon called «gravity», experienced by all massive bodies, that accelerates them in relation to other massive bodies” epistemically true?

      If truth was subjective, the answer would be “true” or “false” depending on the subject. For those whom the answer is “false”, this means they would not experience the phenomenon, even in situations other subjects would; e.g. near Earth. That implies they’d have at least some control over experiencing gravity, because they could simply say “it’s now true for me” and fall, or “it’s now false for me” and stop falling.

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      • Senal@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Let me put it this way: is the statement “there’s a phenomenon called «gravity», experienced by all massive bodies, that accelerates them in relation to other massive bodies” epistemically true?

        Scientifically, maybe? Because that’s what the scientific method is, best approximations given the knowledge we currently have.

        But let’s assume yes for the purposes of this reply.

        If truth was subjective, the answer would be “true” or “false” depending on the subject.

        And context.

        Same subject different circumstances, different gravitational forces.

        For those whom the answer is “false”, this means they would not experience the phenomenon, even in situations other subjects would; e.g. near Earth.

        That’s a binary interpretation of a non-binary system.

        But again, for the purposes of this reply, sure.

        That implies they’d have at least some control over experiencing gravity, because they could simply say “it’s now true for me” and fall, or “it’s now false for me” and stop falling.

        There’s a big assumption there that this is a binary.

        Gravity control, doesn’t have to be binary.

        It doesn’t even have to be direct, they could achieve the same effect by increasing or decreasing mass.

        But let’s say it’s magic, direct control.

        In an objective system where gravity exists it would conceptually be possible to control the level of gravity acting upon yourself without turning it on or off.

        I’m a subjective system where gravity could exist or not depending on subject and context, the same is true.

        Which brings me back to:

        There’s no reason gravity control requires a subjective truth.

        Emphasis mine.

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• HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  no no i’ve gotten really high and ass-philosophical and sometimes we take ridiculous positions (e.g. horses are just poorly behaved long dogs) just to see how long it takes for the other person to figure out we’re high off our ass and giggling inside the entire time.

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  • Senal@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Good spot, i should have said “truly believes” instead of “claims”.

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• AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Truth

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  • Senal@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Subjectively?

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    • AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Speculative

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      • homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The best kind of technical.

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