Comment on Let's discuss ideas how Game Pass should be structured and priced

jordanlund@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Tango might have been fine if they were an independent developer, not owned by Microsoft who shut the studio down. Their shutdown likely had nothing to do with their sales, and everything to do with messing with margins for stockholders to see a line going up more.

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• Goodeye8@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  It also undermines the Stop Killing Games movement because you’re not sold a product. You’re sold a service which means any game that exists solely for game pass (which eventually will happen if game pass becomes the predominant way to access games) doesn’t need an EOL plan for game preservation.

  It will also create the streaming service problem, where instead of having the games you want to play in one place you will have 3/4 gamepass-like services that each have their own exclusive library so instead of X amount a month you’ll be paying 3x amount to access different services.

  It also further normalizes not owning any games so you’ll end up being dependent on the services like gamepass. Which also makes it easier to control the price of the service down the line because what are you going to do, go play your non-existent library of games?

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  • Katana314@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    All of these points only apply to cases where a game has completely closed off full-purchase options, in favor of rental-only models. As of yet, I have not seen that model exist; only constant cries of “but someday…!” in regards to Game Pass.

    I used to subscribe to it, and left for other criticisms I had of it and Microsoft. But to make clear to GP’s all-time critics: It is very clear to me that Game Pass is a rental model. I am not upset at losing access to said games when the time ends. I believe the same could be said about GP’s other users. I think most of us would view any attempt to actually reach a “rental-only system” as a negative. Heck, even Xbox themselves would likely view it negatively, since the success of game pass came conjoined with a rise in spending on permanent licenses to games. They’d be throwing away free money.

    The moment such a “rent-only” measure occurs, even if it’s just for one major game, many people would likely move away to services where we can choose how long we keep our games. If such a service didn’t exist due to some massive market hand, an indie developer would make it, and people would go there.

    While it’s reasonable to see an option like “Rent your games!” and reply “No thanks, I don’t like renting my games”, the conclusion of “This needs to be outlawed because someday all game developers worldwide will make us rent all our games and ownership will be banned which is anticonsumer” is asinine overreach that undermines your credibility.

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    • Goodeye8@piefed.social ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Then it’s great I didn’t say anything about it needing to be outlawed. I simply pointed out the negatives of what will happen if game pass like services become THE way to play games. I’m not really worried about it at the moment because it’s Microslop, they’re incapable of not fucking it up before it’s too late.

      But I would be very worried if other big publishers picked up the same model because that implies there’s a big enough market to make the switch and that would put us on the wrong path. I guarantee the likes of EA and T2 are definitely keeping an eye on how game pass is performing and if it was doing exceptionally well we’d be seeing more of them. Kind of like in the early 2010s you saw the likes of EA and Ubisoft create their own storefronts because they saw what a cash cow Steam was. That’s why I don’t use game pass and I don’t recommend game pass and I let people know of the anti-consumer outcomes of using game pass. Because what we do today can impact what we’ll be doing in the future.

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      • Katana314@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        I’ll apologize for the overreach on the subject of legality. But I do think treating it as an imminent danger, like it’s locking off options, is an overreach.

        We DO see more game passes currently. There’s EA+, Ubisoft+ (often bundled in other services), PlayStation Plus, Nintendo Online, and even some other niches like Indie Pass.

        Right now, a variety of consumers see the ads for these, and accept or reject the offer/pricing based on their circumstances. There doesn’t appear to be a direct “danger” of these models swallowing all digital consumption. The most common outcry I’ve seen is “Don’t rent these things! When the rental period is up, you have to give it back!” To me, that just insults the intelligence of people who are agreeing to these terms knowingly, which is definitely not everyone. I will volunteer that I pay for PS+, knowing I don’t own its games.”

        I similarly don’t see an advantage to the supposed “making the switch” in which a publisher announces “Our next suite of games will be rental only and disallow purchase”. That would just be poor PR for that publisher and lose them customers to competitors.

        To be clear, we have NEVER seen that and the fear written out by you and others suggests it will ALWAYS be the case. You are suggesting the potential for a 100% industry shift-over. The closest thing we’ve seen is live service games, and the clear preference there is through voluntary spending like Fallout 76’s vault pass; not lockout systems that kick people out of play wholesale for missing a payment. Even acknowledging how greedy corporations are, they don’t really have a strong reason to consider such lockouts.

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  • Agent_Karyo@piefed.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    To be honest, I don’t think the indie gaming scene will ever fully transition to his model even in the worst case scenario.

    The market is basically large enough that it can support a niche being independent in terms of channel fulfilment and avoidance of console style exclusivety.

    Not to mention video games are arguably much more competitive than movies or streaming shows. Often people look to a specific production with shows and movies, with games, new franchises can often build upon and expand upon existing gameplay models.

    Not that I think the subscription model is good, but it is clear that there is a segment of the market that prefers this delivery approach.

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  • thingsiplay@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    These are good points to have in mind. I personally don’t even subscribe to Game Pass and even if i would, then only for couple of months at a time at most. I rather want to have a license to “own” the games (I know the issues with owning a license rather than specific copy of it). I just had fun of thoughts how to structure this business in a better way for the gamer (and probably for the company too?), as they definetely not backing up from a streaming service like Pass system.

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• thingsiplay@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  So what you end up with are fewer games and lower quality games, it’s a race to the bottom.

  I think Game Pass is a model where more games is beneficial for Microsoft, and diversity and short games that can be created easier. That’s because Game Pass wants to have a flood of games coming to keep subscription. I wouldn’t say that necessarily equates to lower quality. The risk is lower for each game, so they can experiment.

  In the end I think Game Pass harms more than its useful, but I do not see this black and white, as it has its pros and cons. Overall I do not like subscription services where you pay for years and if you stop playing, you stop getting access. If you had purchased games, then after years you would have a library you can visit and play over and over again, without paying for access. But it has its pros too, as one can play ton of games in short period of time, especially if you like shorter small games.

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