Comment on But bro please
MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Anyone who thinks their AR-15 ga going to let them take on a tyrannical government has no understanding of how tanks work.
The US’s violence budget far exceeds any existing well regulated militia, let alone Cletus’ gun cabinet. The government can kill us from a great height from outside of visual range. That’s why it’s very very important to elect people you can trust, or have a revolution if the candidates are all trash. It’s a very good reason to not e elect a maniacal fucking moron. Oops.
That said, it’s not about being able to win a war against the government, it’s about making it more trouble than it’s worth.
All the tools in the toy box and the us still can not occupy even a small nation well (when was the last time they did so successfuly?). The fact that this is an occupation just has not had the starting incident yet.
The US’s violence budget far exceeds any existing well regulated militia, let alone Cletus’ gun cabinet.
And yet the US lost in Vietnam, despite dropping more tons of bombs on Vietnam alone than used in the entirety of WW2. Come on, the entire 20th century was a story of revolutionary groups inventing the science of guerilla warfare. Small poorly armed forces can take on nation states in the right condition. Did you just…forget…the entire last century of history?
“That said, it’s not about being able to win a war against the government, it’s about making it more trouble than it’s worth.”
There has never been a revolution in history that wasn’t massively outgunned.
The real key is that you use the small guns to seize control of the big guns. And you recruit people who know how to use those tanks and other heavy weaponry. Revolutions often start with raiding armories and military bases for this very reason. You might think it’s impossible for a bunch of randos to storm an actual army base. But history proves otherwise. How many military bases are actually, right at this moment, actively preparing for a large group of civilians to storm the fences? The element of surprise is a powerful weapon.
That’s not how revolutions work. Soldiers are trained to do one thing, to kill people who shoot at them. If you shoot at soldiers there is a very high liklihood that you’re going to end up very, very dead. The only way a revolution in the US will work is if the army switches sides to support the people. If that doesn’t happen, the revolution will not succeed. A bunch of Gravy Seals in ill fitting mismatched surplus store body armour carrying AR-15s will never succeed in overthrowing the US government no matter how many childish circle jerk murder fantasies they share. What will win the revolution in the US is old ladies with pots and pans and young people with whistles. You need to get enough people off their asses and into the streets making noise and protesting. That means you need over 12 million people in the streets protesting on a sustained basis then you need the army to suppor the people.
A bunch of Gravy Seals in ill fitting mismatched surplus store body armour carrying AR-15s will never succeed in overthrowing the US government no matter how many childish circle jerk murder fantasies they share.
They came quite close to doing exactly that on January 6th. Have you forgotten already?
I don’t think they came anywhere close to overthrowing the government. Trump didn’t call out the National Guard but the surrounding states sent theirs in. Had the asshats persisted I have no doubt that there would have been a lot of dead insurrectionists.
My guns are a last stand deterrent. I don’t want to shoot anybody unless I know that they intend to shoot me.
Mine, too.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. There are worse things than dying in a firefight.
The Viet Cong would like a word
That’s a little different. That was an insurgency, not a revolution, and they were heavily supported by China and Russia. That would be more comparable to the years long grinding insurgency that would bankrupt the US if it ever tried to take over Canada.
Tanks sure. But that’s if you can’t keep the illusion of tyranny for everyone to consume.
Malfeasant@lemmy.world 2 months ago
A person has to get in that tank, and sooner or later, they have to get out again…
mlg@lemmy.world 2 months ago
IFVs exist for this exact purpose and they typically have minimum 1 per tank if not 2.
You ain’t gonna get very far when theres a 25mm auto cannon spraying and praying in your general direction.
Plus the coaxial 7.62 MGs
Plus the hull mounted M2 .50 cal MGs.
Why do you think separatists and resistance movements have to rely on IEDs and forcing fights in urban environments with a metric ton of cover available?
Why do you think they get steamrolled by mechanized armored units like almost every time that forces them into guerilla fighting tactics like digging tunnels and using mountainous terrain?
M0oP0o@mander.xyz 2 months ago
Yeah, this is why the us won in Afghanistan, Iraq and Vietnam… Why they must have stood no chance at all, not like an armed and modivated population could put a modern force in a quagmire for 20 years… The us is just difference somehow (citation needed) then the rest of the world.
mlg@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Gulf War 1 was literally the king of all curbstomps and the Taliban fell just as fast to a swarm of CAS, even though they had the NWA completly surrounded.
Only Vietnam survived because surprise surprise they had a hefty mechanized supply line provided by the USSR via China.
Gulf 2 and the aftermath in Afghanistan was still a ridiculously long occupation that all hinged on the idea that the US no longer had any meaningful interest to commit resources and would eventually leave.
Point is, if you wanna go down the route of “I need 2A for an oppressive government”, you’ll quickly find yourself getting into the same situation as everyone else. Unless you form a side via a civil war, you’re gonna suffer heavy losses in the initial stage just like everyone else, and commit to long term attrition just like everyone else.
sacredfire@programming.dev 2 months ago
I think you’re missing the spirit of their comment. They are not saying they get out of the tank right then, they are saying eventually everyone has get out of the tank and go back to their home and if your neighbors aren’t happy with you…
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 2 months ago
And why the hell do you think revolutionaries will be facing the army in open honorable combat? And what’s wrong with doing the fighting in urban areas and digging tunnels?
Sure, an AR-15 won’t take down a tank. But if you’re even asking if they can, you fundamentally misunderstand how revolutions and insurgencies work.
mlg@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Nothing, i’m just saying that most people don’t understand this and don’t know that their individual skills with a firearm just won’t matter much if you don’t organize into a proper group with modern vehicles at your disposable.
Not saying it’s a bad idea in any way, but there’s a significant portion of the American community that I could not imagine being able to walk 10k despite stockpiling a platoon’s worth of ammo.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Now you know the true reason behind the ai push
MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Sure, but they will get in that tank inside a well fortified base protected by helecopters with door mounted mini guns and Hellfire missiles, go out and kill people with piddly little AR-15s at an industrial scale, then return to their well fortified bases for afternoon tea.
The second ammendment was wirten back when the people and the government had the same weapons. That isn’t the case anymore. If you take on the government, you die. If 100,000 of you take on the government most of you die. Unless you can get a sizeable portion of the peopulation out from in front of Keeping Up with the Kardashains and into the street to protest you’re a pedofascist dictatorship for the forseeable future.
modus@lemmy.world 2 months ago
You’re not wrong, but at least it affords us a fighting chance.
Malfeasant@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That was the point. A point that has been lost over the years.