To be fair I also have a problem with the fact the police exist
Comment on Why do they turn Federation into a dystopia?
ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 23 hours ago
I think it’s extremely disingenuous to equate “bad things happening sometimes” with “dystopia.”
The point of everything you mentioned (except for the police in '09, which you don’t actually seem to have an issue with aside from the fact that they exist?) is that these things can be overcome, which is precisely the opposite of a dystopian setting.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 23 hours ago
ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 23 hours ago
I certainly am not a fan of policework as it is currently, commonly conducted, but I have a hard time imagining a society that has laws, but doesn’t have a dedicated system to uphold those laws that involves some kind of police.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Police have only existed for about 2% of the history of human civilization, and yet you cannot imagine a future without them. You’ll accept physics-breaking technologies like transporters and warp drives. But a world without cops? That’s a bridge too far.
ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 22 hours ago
If you can offer a compelling argument about how those other 98% were more fair and just, and can outline exactly what that better system was, I’m all ears.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 23 hours ago
A neighbourhood watch would be way cooler. Daddy Kirk’s neighbour pulling up next to little Kirk and going “Whatcha doing with dad’s car, kiddo?” would be way more Trek but wouldn’t satisfy JJ’s craving for pointless action sequences.
ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 23 hours ago
It’s an interesting idea, but it also tiptoes right up to the line of “neighbours spying on each other on behalf of the state” - not great!
justOnePersistentKbinPlease@fedia.io 22 hours ago
You realize that for millenia, philosophers fantasized about the concept of a police force that existed just to enforce laws, and not just be military guards?
The issue is not the concept of police. It is the leadership and the police unions.
otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 hours ago
Preach it, citizen.
… Oh. You meant in Star Trek.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 10 hours ago
Both is good
Kirk@startrek.website 22 hours ago
I’d also like to highlight that the Federation is never described in-universe as a Utopia (the only example that comes to mind is Pelia sarcastically describing Earth specifically as a “no money, socialist utopia”).
And speaking candidly, since the TOS days the messaging has always kinda been that “Utopia” is about the journey more than the destination.
ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 22 hours ago
Yeah, someone summed it up very well elsewhere in the thread: “utopia” describes an ideal to strive toward, but is inherently unachievable, if only because you will never find two people who have the same utopic vision.
Unless “utopia” includes some sort of system for forcing everyone to think alike… 🤔
Kirk@startrek.website 22 hours ago
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