The thing is, with public planning, zoning laws etc. you can make it possible. People generally move to where the jobs are, and that tends to be cities. It’s basically why Spain’s population is so concentrated in the cities, much more so than in other similarly-sized european countries. In the US, zoning laws were a huge part of how it became so car-reliant.
Comment on [meme] choochoo
cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 1 day ago
This is already the case in many places where it’s possible. It would be a huge waste of resources though, in places that are thinly populated.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org 1 day ago
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
Efficient planning could overcome that. A central hub with lines going to every other major hub nearby would be enough to connect all the cities. Then each route can run “express” services that only stop at major stations along the way, and “local” services, which stop at every small station. That way people can travel faster between hubs, while stilling giving access to less populated areas.
A few transcontinental lines for high-speed trains, and some major north-south routes as well, make public transit a viable optipn for long-distance travel.
Each city having its own metro system would make intracity public transit a viable option, reducing the need for cars and therefore reducing traffic congestion, simultaneously making it possible to make neighborhoods more walkable. A few spoke-shaped lines to reach out to surrounding suburbs, and loop-shaped lines to connect the outskirts without having to tranfer at the central hub.
Then all you need is a few well-planned bus routes to connect suburban areas to nearby stations. The only ones this leaves out are rural areas, who would still depend on cars, but that’s a much smaller portion of the population. Eliminating the need for a car in urban and suburban areas would go a long way towards reducing congestion and pollution.
Lots of places already have good public transportation systems, because they were built around the premise of using trains as a main mode of transport. Suburbs are built around train stations. Mixed-use zoning allows for as many residences as possible to be constructed within walking distance of a train station. And since there’s less need for parking lots, they can be built more densely to avoid wasting space.
The car lobby in the USA did a lot of damage, and now it would be costly to convert the infrastructure. But long term, it would be a worthwhile investment.
doingthestuff@lemy.lol 1 day ago
90% of the US has none of that. Nothing walkable. No trains. No buses. No sidewalks. I’ve lived in places with transportation pretty decent, but the only option where I live currently is cars. We are generations away from what you’re describing. Making cars more expensive isn’t accelerating the development of alternatives, it’s only making people suffer and more and more angry.
astutemural@midwest.social 20 hours ago
-User posts in-depth explanation of how to build out public transit -“Well we don’t have it NOW so you’re hurting farmers!!!1!”
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
Yes, I know that. I’m identifying that as a problem, but I never said a solution would be quick or easy. I’m fairly certain I even said that US infrastructure is built in a way that would make it more difficult, as compared to societies that are built upon rail-based systems.
When did I ever say anything about making cars more expensive? What is it with Lemmy comments and making strawman arguments?
logicbomb@lemmy.world 1 day ago
That’s weird. I thought it was everyone driving their own cars all the time that was a huge waste of resources.
cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 1 day ago
With work hours being what they are, you don’t have set times where everyone needs to be at work or go home at the same time. It rural areas, having public transport so often that “you don’t need to check a schedule” would mean empty busses and trails most of the time.
For me, I can tell that I have lived in a city where this was the case. It was great! But where I live now, this isn’t possible. The narrative now is, that people should move into towns, to make this more effective. There is a very fine balance between effectiveness though, and industrialization of living conditions.
xthexder@l.sw0.com 1 day ago
Do you know how many cities are out there that have completely useless public transit? I don’t think anyone’s suggesting we build a train out to every farmer’s front door so they can get into town without a car.
There’s plenty of areas where additional bus routes and train lines would be a huge benefit, but the entire budget is being spent on car infrastructure.
(Like the Premier of Ontario who wants to build a tunnel for cars under Toronto instead of finishing the light rail projects that have been under construction for over a decade)
blarghly@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I mean, you are correct that building an entire rail line to a single farm to take the farmer’s kids to school would be extremely inefficient. We need farms, and farmers, and those farmers need to be able to get around, and the way for them to get around is personal automobiles.
But the argument “farmers need cars so we still need cars” is not really an argument in favor of auto-intensive infrastructure. It is a edge case, and we should design cities around the needs of the average person and make allowances for edge cases, not the other way around.
logicbomb@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The meme is specifically about cities, so when you said “thinly populated,” that should have been about thinly populated areas of cities.
If you’re actually talking about rural areas and not cities, then you’d want to start with buses. Speaking of living in places with good public transit, I used to live in Japan, and I was surprised by how much buses get used in rural areas. They can get pretty full.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
You can get almost anywhere by train in Japan. And anywhere you can’t get by train, you can get by bus. It’s lovely.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Yeah, they put busses into my exurb and they hardly have anyone riding them because they just connect one shopping center to a different shopping center to the library to the bus depot to &c. (never any residential). Only busses that stop in residential are schoolbusses. Now they wonder why no one uses the local bus. Or not.