Sounds like the problem is people leaving plugs lying on the ground? Otherwise known as user error.
Comment on British plugs
Devial@discuss.online 3 weeks ago
Best plug+receptor design in the world for electrical safety.
Worst plug design in the world for bottom of foot safety.
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Or what they called it: Skill Issue.
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Also best for staying in sockets but not getting stuck
toynbee@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You sound like ElectroBOOM.
poopkins@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
There’s no UK standard for three-phase and high amperage sockets or plugs. In fact, UK sockets don’t support 16A three-phase at all, so if you have higher power needs (for example for EV charging) you’re left with having to install a dedicated wall box that uses an entirely different connector than the 3-pin UK plug, BS 1363.
Given this incompatibility, how can you argue that UK sockets are better, for instance, than SN 441011?
To say nothing of how comically giant every appliance plug needs to be, regardless of how low its wattage is?
Devial@discuss.online 3 weeks ago
I did notably just say that the plug is the best in the world for electrical safety. I’ve made no claims of it’s usefulness or convenience outside of that.
I am also unaware of any country on the planet that uses the same plug/connector for general purpose household devices and 3 phase power. The number you provided, SN441011, also just leads to relatively generic household plug that doesn’t seem fit suited for multi phase use either, so not sure what you’re trying to say. I’ve also rarely seen places outside of industrial environments that have multiphase outlets, except in America, which has split phase power, and uses the voltage boost by going phase to phase instead of phase to ground. There’ll you’ll do often find 240V split phase outlets for high power appliances like shop heaters, electric clothes driers or EVSE
To say nothing of how comically giant every appliance plug needs to be, regardless of how low its wattage is?
It’s a minor nuisance yeah sure, but it also has the nice advantage that there’s no need to fully mould plastic around it. UK plugs are pretty much universally openable, meaning you can repair them yourself if a fuse dies, or one of the wires comes lose. It’s also really easy, and literally all you need is a single screw driver, to swap a working plug over onto a cable who’s plug has broken.
But even so, it’s again not a safety issue so not exactly relevant to my poing.
poopkins@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
By this logic, a potato is the best in terms of electrical safety. That’s of course tongue in cheek, but if we’re reducing plug capabilities in the interest of calling them safe, USB-A 1.0 is the “safest” because it only outputs 5V at 3A.
I’m sure I don’t need to point out how the plug is part of a broader electrical system and forms an integral part of it. Excusing the plug from an entire host of applications by stating that a different standard solves for that is the very point of my comment.
SN441011 is the Swiss system that through its 2-, 3- and 5-pin design supports single- and three-phase for up to 11 kW in domestic applications.
As an aide, regarding fuses in UK plugs: Putting the onus of electrical safety on the user for home repairs with a screwdriver is, in my opinion, inherently unsafe, especially when there’s no safe backup through a circuit breaker. Imagine an impatient user replaces a burnt fuse with a piece of aluminum foil.
Devial@discuss.online 3 weeks ago
By this logic, a potato is the best in terms of electrical safety. That’s of course tongue in cheek, but if we’re reducing plug capabilities in the interest of calling them safe, USB-A 1.0 is the “safest” because it only outputs 5V at 3A.
I’m concerned that you thought that was legitimately some kind of good point you made there. The fact that we’re talking about a household plug and socket is blindingly obvious from context.
SN441011 is the Swiss system that through its 2-, 3- and 5-pin design supports single- and three-phase for up to 11 kW in domestic applications.
I have literally never in my life thought for even a millisecond “hey wouldn’t be useful if I could plug my regular appliances into a high power outlet too ?”
How many multiphase and high power outlets do you people have that needing to be forward compatible with regular single phase household plugs is relevant ?
There’s like maybe 2 or 3 devices in a home that even need multiphase high power outlets, like ovens+ranges, electric driers or water heaters or EVSE. And none of those tend to move around much.
Also, again, as I literally stated in in comment of above, that is a matter of convenience , not safety, so it’s an irrelevant point.
Putting the onus of electrical safety on the user for repairs with a screwdriver is, in my opinion, inherently unsafe, especially when there’s no safe backup through a circuit breaker. Imagine an impatient user replaces a burnt fuse with a piece of aluminum foil.
What if someone does that to a car fuse ? What if someone does it one of those old circuit fuses that you still get in old buildings without breakers ?
Or imagine an impatient home owner duck tapes their breaker/GFCI to “ON” because they can’t be arsed to find the fault that makes it trip every 20 seconds.
Idiots ignoring obvious safety instructions will make most ANY system unsafe. It’s not like replaying a fuse is a hard or dangerous process. Most plugs allow you to just clip out the fuse holder with anything small and pointy, swap it with an equal, and then pop it back in. It’s not like we’re expecting people to do rocket surgery here.
danny3892@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Impossible to plug small plug into big power. I see no problems.
Horsecook@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Devial@discuss.online 3 weeks ago
No it isn’t. It’s debatable if the safety features are still necessary with modern wiring, but it is objectively safer than any other plug design there is.
And the design of these features wasn’t because of “substandard” wiring. It is because the UK used to use ring circuits in old houses, which are unsuitable to be protected by central fuses/breakers, necessitating fuses in the plugs. That doesn’t make the system any less safe. As long as a fuse is present, and the circuits are adequately sized, where precisely on the circuit a fuse is located is irrelevant.
Also, the fuse inside the plug provides an utterly unique advantage that no other country has: The fuse can be used to protect the external wire from over current. Centralised fuses are exclusively designed to prevent over current on the main, internal circuit, they don’t give a crap what happens on the other side of an outlet. A central fuse will do nothing to stop you from pulling 15Amps thought a 3 amp cable. A fuse inside the plug, appropriately sized for those 3 Amps, will in fact protect the cable itself.
deegeese@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
So you’re not saying it’s because the wiring is substandard, but because it’s ring circuits, which are not up to the same standard as if they used a breaker panel.
Isn’t that the same thing?
Devial@discuss.online 3 weeks ago
No, because the rest of the world isn’t America.
Those ring circuits WERE up to UK standard, and perfectly safe when they were constructed, and nowadays are either still covered by the standard, or grandfathered in.
The reason other counties don’t use ring circuits isn’t because they’re less safe. It’s because they’re less convenient. It’s easier and more convenient to make and use, and easier in terms of individual steps, to make seperate fused circuits instead of a ring circuit.
The reason the UK used ring circuits was because they use much less copper conduit, and given the ~copper~ everything shortage during and after WWII, the convenience of modern circuits simply wasn’t worth it.
devedeset@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
The USA approach to this is to mandate a comical number of outlets everywhere (to prevent extension cord usage), mandate a large number of individual circuits (especially for things that draw a large amount of power), and more recently some combo of AFCI/GFCI/CAFCI breakers (to provide some level of sensing things going wrong and shutting off power).
The stats are not great for the USA in terms of number of fires. I haven’t done deep research. From personal experience, most homes built after modern US electrical code was fleshed out are generally fine. Modern homes (or ones upgraded to modern code) seem very safe - the “smart” breakers tend to actually work.
My anecdote here is that my relatively small hometown area (15,000 people, largely built up between 1860-1940) still has frequent fires relating to electrical and heating systems and the current city I live in (95,000 people mostly built up starting in ~1960) has very few fires ever. I spend 2 weeks a year around Christmas back in my hometown. 3 of the last 7 years had a structure loss fire while I was there. In the same period of time there have been 2 structure loss fires in my current city total.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 3 weeks ago
And Europe doesn’t have old houses with the same difficulty in wiring?
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You know that extension cords can have breakers in them?
Devial@discuss.online 3 weeks ago
Unless they’re mandated by code, I don’t care. Basic safety being an optional add on by the manufacturer is bad.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Care to elaborate on this? Imo it does sounds like a win if that’s the case.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 3 weeks ago
Post-war reconstruction, they had a massive copper shortage. The wiring standards they adopted allowed for using as little copper as possible. That meant fewer, high-amperage circuits, rather than many low-amperage circuits. They used “ring circuit” topology instead of “branch circuits” to allow them to use undersized wiring.
Basically, all the shortcuts they took in their household wiring introduce considerably greater risks than exist elsewhere, including North America. Their household wiring is overloaded relative to most of the rest of the world. They mitigated the risks of their household wiring with stricter standards on their appliance wiring. Which is why they need a plug for their phone charger comparable to the plugs we use on a welder.
It’s a good plug A damn good plug. It’s just complete overkill for electric systems outside of the UK.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
That makes sense, but imo for those country that follow UK standard with 220v/240v power everywhere in the house, it better be overkill than not. But then i guess that’s why EU also have this two pin plug for low power application that come with partially insulated pin, and won’t hurt your feet when step on. Best of both world!
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Krudler@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Thank you for pointing this out. A “good enough” system that downloads all the headaches onto the users. War time shit.