I agree, in that “self improvement” is a fairly nebulous concept and acceptance of the self is a positive trait, but they should probably still look to improve themselves. Exercise, volunteer, pick up a hobby outside the house, cut off your toxic community and find another. Volunteering and community tend to go together, from my experience.
Comment on Anon has a warning for incels
chunes@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I would even say don’t worry too much about self-improvement. It’s a vague concept that encourages you to be perpetually dissatisfied (possibly to sell you stuff).
You can always be satisfied with who you are. Remember how Mr. Rogers likes you just the way you are? You can extend that kindness to yourself. Once you’ve done that, then you are in the right headspace to lose some weight or improve your income or whatever.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
architectonas@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I like the idea of self-improvement in the sense of becoming even more yourself. I believe there is some kind of path(s) in each of us. It takes effort to recognise it – you can say: accept it – and even more to actually pursue it filtering out all external influences that do not suit. We all have ideas, dreams and wishes, but we have to listen carefully to hear them.
lemmur@szmer.info 3 weeks ago
Isn’t self-acceptance considered self-improvement?
TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Very well said.
Love from others comes after a love of self.
blarghly@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I don’t think you are totally wrong here, but I also want to push back a bit. I’ve seen this kind of take before, and heard it in a different form when I was struggling in my dating life. It took the form “you need to figure out {internal issue} before you start dating.” And the more I read it, the more frustrated I got, because the advice seemed to boil down to “you will only be ready to date once you have committed to a bhuddist monastery, meditated for 10 years straight, and achieved enlightenment. Once all desire has left your heart - including the desire to date someone - you will be ready to date.”
Which is, of course, ridiculous. Overcoming your internal struggles or learning to love yourself is a process. It is a process that almost everyone is engaging in. And no one (or almost no one) really reaches the destination permanently.
Furthermore, we should recognize that overcoming your internal struggles can’t happen in a vacuum - or at least it will be a lot harder that way. Like, really, what should our incel friend do with their time? Literally the exact same thing they’ve been doing their whole lives, except they go to therapy once per week? If that is really all they can manage, I totally support that and applaud them for putting that effort in. But realistically, that needs to be a first step that leads to further action if they ever want to see significant changes in themselves and their lives.
If they have social anxiety, to overcome it they must go out into the world and talk to people. And by actually going out and doing something with the intention of improving yourself and your life, you learn to love yourself more. In this case, you might learn that people are generally nice, and will be nice to you. You might be proud of yourself for overcoming your fears and doing something that was difficult for you. And you might love yourself more because you have experienced that you have the capacity to change and become more like the person you want to be.
Of course, if you are truly dedicated to leaving the wheel of samsara, then certainly, focus all your attention on learning to love yourself. But my personal experience is that when I improved myself, my life got better, and I became happier - even if that initial spark of wanting to improve came from feelings of inadequacy or self hatred or frustration or rage. And through the process of improving myself, I was forced to confront my inner demons in a far more visceral way that helped me overcome them. And now that I have improved myself and my life, I am in a much better place to work on my internal world and learn to love myself more.
It’s okay to chase the dragon of self improvement, or of achieving worldly desires. The bhudda is equally found on the meditation mat and in the snake oil in the GNC pre-work out aisle.
chunes@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You’re right. I probably phrased that a bit poorly, especially with respect to “do ___ before ___.” The point I was trying to get across is that this push for self-improvement is often extrinsic and possibly unnecessary.
If chasing money or muscles (or whatever) is something that genuinely excites you, then by all means do that. But if you’re doing it because others tell you that’s what you need to find contentment, then I just want people to know how bullshit that is.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 3 weeks ago
Can’t speak for every incel friend but the one in our group needs to be working on regulating his emotions and not spending so much time on incel forums. Getting comfortable with himself and the fact that not every woman who is nice to him is going to be interested him romantically. He’s in his 30s and still acts like a fucking teenager when he gets rejected. At least 3 of us at different points in time have had to pull him aside and have a talk to him about how his behavior is making the women in our group uncomfortable and explain that if he doesn’t get that shit under control he’s not going to get invited out anymore. Even when he does take up a hobby or work on himself he talks about it like he’s checking off a box so that he can finally deserve to get laid. Then, when that doesn’t work out for him because he reeks of desperation when he interacts with women, he goes back to his bad habits.