Comment on Anon has a warning for incels
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 day agoIdk, if “doing you” means never leaving home, you’re not getting chances to actually find someone that you intersect with. You do need to make a conscious effort to put yourself out there so you have those chances, and you should put some effort into improving your confidence to maximize your chances. Don’t change who you are to please someone, but do shower and put on a clean shirt.
j4k3@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Not really the point of what I am saying. I am speaking for the other person too without bias or assumptions and I am not pushing anyone to conform to some stereotype. If you’re happy wearing dirty shirts, not showering, and staying at home, that is perfectly valid. You can and should just be yourself. If you feel the need to be someone else or wear any mask of assumption or conformity, you’re potentially hurting someone else and offering a fake version of yourself. If you’re lonely, pursue your curiosity in spaces where other people interact. Don’t just go to where you might find people. You do not exist in that space; that is not you. On a subtle non obvious level, going to a space for not you reasons like this is predatory.
I am actually saying, you’re allowed to be happy or content with whatever state of self awareness and intelligent engagement you push yourself to achieve. The pursuit of raw self motivated curiosity is the only way to expand self awareness from within and grow. When motivated purely from within one’s self, one will eventually achieve one’s true potential while being true to self.
No one deserves to partner with someone that later never showers and never leaves the house after they remove the mask of their true self.
So you see, I’m saying the same thing but with the nuance of the best interests of all parties involved. Don’t tell people to conform to combat loneliness. Make an attempt to inspire their curiosity and self growth if you feel like you’ve spotted some inadequacy, but ultimately let them be themselves so that they are not masking to hurt someone else.
Relationships certainly can and do change people, but let those that want to change someone find their query in the true depths of the coal mine if they choose lest they unwittingly find themselves on an impossible journey to the center of the Earth.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 21 hours ago
Oh sure, I just read it as validating self-destructive habits of “incels,” where they look for reasons to “justify” their victimhood. They jump to insane extremes, like saying, “I have to completely change everything about myself to get a GF/BF,” but honestly all it really takes is a little bit of confidence (going to meetups you’re interested in helps), practicing reasonable hygiene, and making yourself available.
Sure, but on the flip-side, finding someone you really care about does a lot to motivate you to change your habits to make sure they are comfortable being around you. The first step is finding someone you’re compatible with, and that is unlikely to happen without making an effort.
Right, and that’s not what I’m saying. Instead, I’m saying if you want a thing, there are certain expectations to get it. If you don’t want companionship, that’s totally fine. But if you do and you’re not getting it, there are certain things you need to do to improve your chances, and whining about it online while locking yourself up in your home isn’t it.
j4k3@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
It is probably just a me thing, but I had a couple of times in my life where I was in the mindset of putting myself out there, and those were dark times. I never had good results. All of my good long term relationships came from times when I encountered someone adjacent to my other interests.
We are both likely grossly oversimplifying the spectrum of potential human experience. Like I can fake extraversion or play like other types of people than my true introverted self. If I keep my thoughts mostly to myself I become very mysterious to any potential partner because of my scope of hobbies and interests. However, I actually need someone that I can talk to openly and constructively across all of my interests, a person that has a similar scope of their own independent interests. That is something I have learned the hard way. I eventually end most long term relationships when I feel held back by what amounts to a muse. They end up limited to a chapter of my life but not a fully storied main character as I evolve.
Anyways, my point is that when I actively went looking with the purpose of meeting people, I had a terribly disappointing and depressing experience. Maybe an extrovert would have a different experience. To me, shopping for people in places where people shop will likely (stereotypically) yield a shopping type of person that will likely continue to shop or find an irresistible bargain at some point.
The best experiences I had were from those I met that were in coplanar orbits to some interest I had. What I really need has been someone motivated by slow persistent but insatiable curiosity and abstract awareness. I don’t know if I ever would have found such a person in my past life, but the feeling of being held back by someone that lacks the curiosity to grow in parallel with me is untenable and empirically worse than being alone.
It doesn’t matter now that I’m physically disabled with my specific limitations. I’m now content with being alone. I feel it would be unfair to force someone to watch me fall apart and die young due to the shell of who I am now after what I barely survived. This place, through the delay of typed thoughts, is the only place a simulacrum of my former self still exists through the haze of chronic sleep deprivation and pain. So I have no skin in the game, only a reflection on past life experiences free from the addiction of relationships.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 12 hours ago
Well yeah, “putting yourself out there” doesn’t mean doing things you hate, it means doing things you like that involve other people, but forcing yourself to try doing them with unfamiliar people. If you like board games or whatever, look for a local group at the library or something. But you’re not going to meet new people to play with if you just sit at home.
Don’t go to a dance club if you hate dancing, but that doesn’t mean you should just stay home.
I don’t think you’ll ever find someone who matches you on all your interests, but hopefully you find someone who is willing to listen to you ramble on about them, and support you pursuing them. They’ll have their own interests as well and expect the same from you.
My wife and I are both fairly introverted, and we met at a school dance that neither of us really wanted to attend. We awkwardly exchanged numbers, then texted for a bit before our first date, which was playing video games at my place. She beat me at a fighting game, and that’s how I knew it’d have a chance at working out. Nothing is perfect, but we have enough overlap to have something to talk about, along with separate interests. We both like video games, but she prefers team games (MMOs, games like REPO, etc), while I like SP games. She likes to paint and read romantic manga, I’m more into sci fi and fantasy novels. We both like movies and road trips, and we have a similar sense of humor.
I sincerely believe you need just a bit of overlap to share common ground, with enough differences to keep things interesting.
I hope you can find more than contentment. If not romance, at least a trusting friendship. Maybe you have that, idk, or maybe you’re happier than you’re letting on, my point is that I believe everyone deserves to be happy, but that often requires a bit of discomfort to “put yourself out there” and make it possible to find fulfilling companionship.
Everyone is different of course, I just feel bad when I see someone blaming everyone else for their loneliness. That doesn’t seem to be the case for you, I’m more referring to the OP here (and honestly, most of my comment here is in that context).
Anyway, finding a good fit is really hard, especially as you get older, since there are naturally fewer people available and everyone seems to be busy. Anyway, good luck with whatever fulfills you, and I hope something you or I wrote here helps someone.
lessthanluigi@lemmy.sdf.org 20 hours ago
About the insane extremes incels jump to:
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