Comment on science never ends
RedFrank24@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Science isn’t a belief, it’s a method.
TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
bustrouffi@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
It is a method! That method is predicted on European Enlightenment avowals of what constitutes an acceptable boundary of truth, an acceptable methodology, and the primacy of certain measurements. That’s the subjective part.
2+2 does equal 4. That doesn’t mean valuing 4 as an answer or valuing the act of valuing of the certainty of 2+2=4 is an objective position.
Love k onto Philosophy of Science - this is not a controversial perspective.
wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Um, actually, the scientific method as it is currently formulated is best traced back to Ibn Al-Haytham, with elements dating back throughout thousands of years, from the rationalism of Thales to the experimentalism of 墨子. Babylonians were using mathematical prediction algorithms to accurately state the date of the next solar eclipse in 600 BCE. It seems like YOU need to read up on the history of the philosophy of science, and of you claim that 2+2=4 is an “enlightenment” idea, I cannot hope to respond with a level of disdain sufficient to encapsulate your willfully-pompous idiocy.
You say that 2+2 DOES equal 4, and then make claims which suggest that it doesn’t. Certainly, 2+2 can only be said to equal 4 because of the axioms of mathematics, which are, of course, purely postulates, since Cartesian solipsism demonstrates that we cannot truly know anything to be true except that we ourselves exist (oh, but wait, your disdain for enlightenment philosophy clearly removes this, the best refuge for your argument!)
However, to accept as a matter of course that 2+2=4 and then suggest that it is only through subjective perception that we privilege 4 over any other number in that equality is not only a clear argument in bad faith, meant only to make others feel stupid, but is also patently ridiculous, since you are reneging on your own given precept.
So, if you’re planning on gatekeeping knowledge,
- Do better than "2+2=4, but also 2+2=5 because eurocentrism bad"
- Fuck. Right. Off.
bustrouffi@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
Holy moly, champ!
I didn’t say maths was from Europe, and I didn’t say Europeans invented 2+2=4 and I certainly didn’t say 2+2 could or should equal 5.
Also, honestly sincere genuine question - what am I gatekeeping and where’s the disdain for Enlightenment ideals? Please quote me!
wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
An honest and sincere question deserves an honest and sincere answer:
Gatekeeping: Simply suggesting that others need to read more, or that they need to “look into” one of the largest and most controversial philosophical topics in history is a haughty and disdainful way of saying “I’m right, I’m not going to cite my sources, and anyone who disagrees with me must carry the burden of proof”. Don’t leave the justification for your argument as an “exercise for the reader” involving the entire canon of published thought, since that insinuates that they are simply too uneducated to understand how correct you are. THAT is gatekeeping knowledge.
I didn’t say maths was from Europe: Not directly, but you supported your argument for the statement “[The scientific] method is predicated on European Enlightenment avowals of what constitutes an acceptable boundary of truth… [etc.]” with nothing but the statements “2+2 does equal 4. That doesn’t mean valuing 4 as an answer or valuing the act of valuing of the certainty of 2+2=4 is an objective position.” As exemplary evidence. You are, quite literally, stating that the “valuing” of 4 as an answer to 2+2 is a question of science (otherwise it’s a non-sequitur), and that this is an example of how the scientific method privileges European Enlightenment ideals over others. That is saying that the precepts of mathematics are based on European enlightenment ideals, Q.E.D.
“Where’s the disdain”: I believe that a reasonable person would read this argument and conclude that the disdain is implied, given that you clearly seem to be complaining that the European enlightenment ideals have somehow “privileged” certain perspectives. Now, I happen to agree with that statement, but clearly in a very different way than you do:
It seems to me that, until the likes of Karl Popper’s contribution of the principle of falsifiability as the chief hallmark of scientific practice, the entrenched belief in strict empiricism was being privileged as a hallmark of European Enlightenment traditionalism. Perhaps another will come along soon who similarly unseats Popper. To claim, however, that the scientific method itself is somehow predicated on enlightenment ideals appears, to me, to miss the entire point of this original post: that science changes, just as much as how we do science. Most of the principles of the scientific method have been around for more than a thousand years. The idea of a strict “scientific method” is as much an illusion as the entirety of reality may be, but that’s just because we are always developing new ways of knowing.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Serious question: are you high?
bustrouffi@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
No.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Supposedly…
gwilikers@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
This sounds really interesting!
rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Eh, IMO it’s more like four methods stacked on top of each other wearing a trench coat.
Honytawk@feddit.nl 3 weeks ago
Still the best trench coat we currently have.
All the other methods are wearing Borat strings and slinging poop at each other.