I’m the US, people we have the same problem with college degree+ level jobs being underpaid, but people without them are just impoverished for life. And some of the ones with the college degree jobs too!
Comment on Something something far-left
RedFrank24@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I think it should come paired with a heavily unionised workforce, otherwise you end up like the UK where the minimum wage keeps going up, but salaries of people who were previously not on the minimum wage stay the same, so now everyone else is actually earning less because prices are rising but salaries are only rising at the top and bottom, eliminating the middle class entirely.
OCATMBBL@lemmy.world 1 day ago
barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Starting pay at many office jobs isn’t much more than minimum wage, but at least young workers can tell their parents that they work in an office instead of running a cash register, and they wear a tie instead of an apron. That’s supposed to be worth a lifetime of student loan debt.
MintyFresh@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
I know it’s not for everyone, but if you’re reading this maybe it’s for you. The trades! Be an electrician, HVAC, plumber, mechanic, etc. It pays well. I mean you’ll probably never get rich, but you’ll definitely be able to support a family. And, once you’re established you could open your own shop. Be your own boss. Know the satisfaction of building something, working with your hands.
Not everyone needs college. I suspect we have enough art historians to get by. We definitely need more trades homies!
OCATMBBL@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
If I could start over that’s probably the route I’d go. I’m in a reasonably good spot - I just know plenty of people who aren’t.
Doctor_Satan@lemm.ee 1 day ago
This comment doesn’t really mean a lot without context. The pay for doctors in the UK varies quite a bit depending on which level of their career they are at. Resident doctors (Foundation Year 1 & 2) earn anywhere between £33k and £37k, Trainees (training in a specialized area of medicine, CT 1-3, ST 1-9) can earn between £43k to £63k. All of these are considered Junior Doctors, who work under the supervision of a Senior Doctor. When they have completed full medical training in a specialized area of medicine (7-10 years), they are Consultant level, which is a Senior Doctor. This can pay between £93k and £126k per year.
For further context, the median individual wage in the UK is £37,430, which is about what second year Resident doctors earn on average. Much like the US, this can be good or bad, depending on where you live. In the North of England, an FY2 earning £37k is solidly middle-class. In London? He’s working-class, but still making far more than minimum wage, and his income will only increase from there.
Speaking of minimum wage… For people 21+ years old, it’s £12.21 an hour. At 40 hours a week, that’s £25,396 per year, or about £7k a year less than a first year resident. There are ZERO doctors in the UK earning “almost below the minimum wage, given the number of hours they actually work.” Unlike in the US where doctors work a billion hours a week, doctors in the UK are unionized (most with the BMA, but there are other unions), and their contracts prevent this. On average, the workload for F1 & 2 (Residents) is 48 hours per week. They do occasionally get hit with longer weeks, but it’s not normal. Their union contracts are designed specifically to prevent overworking and allow them time to work and study/take exams. Doctors working 80 and 90 hour weeks is mostly a thing of the past.
The bottom line is that Doctors in the UK generally make a good living and have strong unions that ensure they continue to do so. That’s not to say things can’t or shouldn’t improve, but their situation is far from bleak. If the only reason you’re getting into medicine is to get rich, then please get the fuck out of medicine. There are much easier ways to get rich than spending the next 20 years studying while you watch people die in front of you.
RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Also UK doctors do not start out $250-500k in debt nor are they paying 25% of their practice’s income to malpractice insurance.
Doctor_Satan@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Yes, both are very important points. I’ve never met a British doctor who had to drive for Uber or suck dick on Backpage to pay off student loans.
RedFrank24@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Doctors do still work more hours than someone in an office, meaning their pay is much lower than their salary would first tell you. Also considering the hours they have to work, and the way shifts are operated, their pay needs to be much, much higher. There’s a reason doctors are fleeing the country to Australia where the pay is better and so are the conditions.
Doctor_Satan@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Yeah, this is a big problem with the early stages of practicing medicine in the UK. Once you make it past about the 7 year mark, it’s all well and good, but those early years, you’re kind of on par with retail workers, which can be demoralizing. A big mistake the UK made was when the pandemic hit, they didn’t raise wages for doctors to compensate for the absolute chaos. BMA should have gone to war over that the way the French did over retirement age.
Things definitely could be better, especially for young doctors, but I would still rather be a doctor in the UK than in the US. No amount of money is worth that kind of burnout, and I don’t want to be treated by any doctor who thinks it is.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net 1 day ago
That is an issue, but it’s still a better world than the one in which only two of the pay bands are making ends meet rather than all three.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Exactly. Don’t let perfection get in the way of progress.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net 1 day ago
It’s actually frustrating how some version of this “problem” is brought up whenever conditions become better for people who earn the least. Like, yes, it makes people like you or me feel poorer compared to the rich fucks of the world, but would you rather go back to poor folks being literally destitute, unable to care for their families?
Problem’s coming from t’other end, gov. Not those poor chaps.
Sorry not directed at you of course; just took the opportunity to go off lol. :P