Comment on If you save, we will charge you more
bob_lemon@feddit.org 1 day agoAssuming both of those people use exactly the same infrastructure (which they do), yes.
The person with the higher usage will still pay more in total because the connection fee is just a base price, you’re still paying per kWh (which is forwarded to the companies running the power stations)
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Ok, so, you’re in a neighborhood. You and 100 neighbors are each using 10kWh. 1000kWh total.
Now a heavy industrial user comes in adjacent to your neighborhood. They are going to need 990,000kWh. The distribution infrastructure is going to need to be upgraded to meet the new need. It is going to need to be upgrade a lot. Those upgrades are going to be extraordinarily expensive to meet the extraordinary needs of that new user.
Should you and your 100 neighbors each have their recurring connection fee jacked up next month and that charge made equal to the 101st “neighbor”?
Of course not. That’s just absurd.
The whole “local generation” issue you were raising is a red herring.
forrgott@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Wow. Talk about moving the goal posts. You’re not even taking about the same thing anymore.
If you just wanna bitch about something, uh, then go in with your bad self. Or something. But rather than even attempt a rebuttal to any of the points raised in this thread, you’ve literally completely changed the scenario being discussed.
Like, why even bother replying? Your whole tirade doesn’t even make sense in the context of the thread…
miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
I love when folks introduce hypotheticals, then pile on hypotheticals and nonsensicals, and believe they’ve championed their cleverness.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I propose a new term: feather man. For when even a straw man looks like a steel man compared to your argument.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 day ago
I used exaggerated examples to clearly demonstrate the nature of the problem, not to quantify it.
The problem is still present even within the neighborhood. Residential consumers rarely draw more than 1/10th of their rated service. Crypto-bro comes into the neighborhood and his miners continuously max out his service.
The power company normally installs and maintains a single service transformer per block; but he alone uses as much power as the rest of the block combined. They have to install and maintain a second transformer just for him, but they spread those extra costs among the entire block.
Why is it reasonable for the power company to demand you subsidize his electrical connection than for him to pay for what he is using?
ramble81@lemm.ee 1 day ago
The “connection fee” would probably be flat by service size. Most homes have 200A connections so that would be one flat rate for everyone with a 200A ingress. If a business uses 400A, they’d get a different price but all 400A would be the same.
Get it now? That has nothing to do with amount used, but rather the size of your “pipe”
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Cryptominer maxes out the same connection that you rarely draw 1/10th of. Why are you subsidizing cryptobro?
ramble81@lemm.ee 1 day ago
I’m not. They would be paying for their usage, I would be paying for my usage. Hence the flat fee for connection plus the cost of usage. It works the same way with sewer and gas (at least where I’m at) everyone pays a flat connection fee based on max size available to you and then you pay for your usage.
FireRetardant@lemmy.world 1 day ago
An industrial facility to the scale you are refering to will likely have its own electrical substation. Either maintained by the facility itself or contracted out to the power supplier.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Of course. I used that exaggerated example to demonstrate the nature of the problem, not to quantify it.
Cryptominers can use the same connection that you do; they just max it out 24/7, while you rarely use more than 1/10th of your connection.
Why should you be forced to subsidize your cryptoneighbor?
FireRetardant@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Connecting infrastructure costs roughly the same to maintain regardless if 10 amps or 1000 amps is running through it. The crypto miner pays the same fee for their standard service connection then pays per Kwh just like everybody else. Other customers are not subsidizing their connection nor their power.
By your logic, you are subsidizing anyone who uses more power than you and you are being subsidized by anyone using less power than you.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Why are the industrial factory and normal residences using the same electrical hookup? Seems fair if they use the same hookup.
Oh, they’re not? So then the factory likely pays one rate for their industrial connection that needs to pull more power than standard residential usage, and normal consumers pay a lower rate for their lower connection provided.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Exaggerated to clearly demonstrate the problem.
With residential housing, consider the cryptobro continuously drawing 180+ amps of his 200A service, while the rest of the community averages 10A, and one unit is down around 1.5A.
Why is Mr. Ampandahalf paying the same connection fee as Mr. Wunetty?
Revan343@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Because the connection fee is a fee for the connection, which is the same (200A) in both cases. This isn’t difficult.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 1 day ago
… because consumption and service connectivity aren’t the same? Consumption and connectivity are two different line items on the bill representing different costs associated with the service.
From your hypothetical, no one is noted as having a different service hookup, so they’re paying for the same service hookup. What part of that, other than the core concept, are you struggling to grok?
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 1 day ago
You would charge based on the kind of connection. A house isn’t going to draw the kind of power that a factory will, but you’re going to need the same equipment your house as you would as your neighbor’s house.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Residential crypto miners can easily draw more power than small factories. I reject the premise of your argument.
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 1 day ago
You specified energy in your example, not me. And I hinted that a hookup fee would likely be dependent on the rated power capacity of the user.
It is likely that a residential crypto miner would likely need to upgrade what they can draw from the grid.